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To me, mindset and warrior go hand in hand.
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Think about the two of the most important things that happen throughout the course of the day.
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Stimulus and our response.
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And the space between those two is where I choose to be a warrior.
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That's where mindset lives.
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It's the space between stimulus and response.
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I cannot choose, I cannot control the stimulus, but I most certainly can control the response.
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And for me, waking up each day and choosing to be a warrior is saying, I'm going to master that space.
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And the response will be not only my control, I will control that, but I will also take responsibility for that.
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Hello, friends.
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Welcome to the Champions Mojo podcast, where we bring you interviews and topics to help you live well and swim well, conversations especially meaningful for master swimmers and anyone striving to perform better in the water or in life.
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We're here to champion you.
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And now your host, Kelly Pallas.
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Hello, friends.
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Today we're diving into the mind of a man who has trained elite warriors, special forces operators, and top performers around the world to perform under the most extreme pressure imaginable.
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Chris Harris, known as the Warrior Maker, is a U.S.
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military veteran, martial arts hall of fame, and Dr.
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D, bestselling author and mindset expert who has spent decades teaching discipline, focus, and execution when the stakes are highest.
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From training close quarters combat to coaching leaders and athletes, Chris has had one poor message: either you master yourself or pressure will master you.
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Today we're going to explore how this battlefield-tested mindset applies directly to athletes, especially master swimmers who want to stay sharp, resilient, and competitive for life.
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Chris, welcome to the show.
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Thank you for having me, Kelly.
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I'm excited.
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Yes.
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How did you learn that you had this special gift to really help people under pressure?
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What was that turning point moment for you?
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Well, I think it started for me.
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Uh I was about 12 years old and I was homeless.
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And I was uh digging through the dumpster looking for food, and I found a bag of donuts.
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And I was really excited because they were still in the bag and unopened, and uh they were protected.
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And I was sitting on the curb eating the donuts, and I just all of a sudden just had this moment.
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Um, and I just like uh there has to be more for me than this, and I'm better than this, and I'm not going to settle for this.
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And I just kind of had this conversation, like with me and the universe, a 12-year-old.
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And I I really started making some soul-binding ties right then and there about uh what I was gonna settle for.
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And I'm willing to do the work, whatever it takes, to improve my situation.
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But I also made another proclamation.
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I was frustrated that there weren't people helping me.
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And I'm not gonna say it was entitlement or self-pity.
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Um, it was just the lack of understanding.
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I didn't understand why people weren't helping me.
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And so, you know, my mother was in prison.
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Uh, she was a heroin addict uh who got caught dealing.
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Both of my sisters were in child protective services.
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So we we never lived under the same roof after we were separated.
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And so, as part of that proclamation, I said, when I figure this out and I will figure it out, I'm gonna throw down the row.
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And that has been my mission.
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And, you know, as a young man, I've always known that I was put on this earth to protect the innocent and to safeguard the helpless.
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And so at 18, uh, I joined the military.
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Um, and then I, after serving for four years, I got out of the military and then I started training um elite uh special forces, which I did for 25 years as a private contractor.
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And that was when I really learned the mindset piece.
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Uh, they are the epitome of just uh mentally tough.
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I mean, when you think of mindset, think of Green Berets, Navy SEALs, Delta Force.
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I mean, they live in this world.
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And so for those 25 years, I'm teaching them, but I'm learning just as much, uh, maybe more than what I was actually training them.
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And then I pivoted in my 40s, I pivoted into corporate America, and I had such a tremendous advantage because I had 25 years of this mindset piece.
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And then, of course, I had these these declarations that I made as a 12-year-old boy, and I just really thrived.
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And I thought, all right, I have got to share this.
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There are a lot of people out there who just feel stuck and they don't know what to do.
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And I know what to do, and I want to teach them what to do because I want there's there's room for all of us at the top.
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Yes, I I love that sending down the rope, giving somebody a hand up.
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Your nickname, the warrior maker.
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I'd like to talk a little bit about warrior as it's defined, but just in general.
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A lot of the work that I did was all for the US or U.S.
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allies, and a lot of it was in the Middle East, probably 80%.
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And the thing with Middle Eastern, you know, military leaders and members of the royal family, when it comes to, you know, hiring what they consider to be the best to train what they consider to be their best, they're not interested in press releases, trophies, accolades, websites, uh, you know, uh testimonials.
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They don't care about any of that.
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They don't believe it.
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They they think it all can be bought, they can be fabricated.
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So if they're gonna basically take someone to put them in front of their elite soldiers, and so my specialty was elite close quarters combat, barehanded combat.
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And so I had to fight.
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I mean, if I wanted the contract, I would be invited, me and a couple of others from around the world, and we would be, we would have to fight whoever that existing master combatants instructor was whose contract was coming to an end.
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And they weren't going to renew it unless that person could prove they were still the best.
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And so I was over in the Middle East, and I was it was time to fight.
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And um, if I won, then I would win the contract.
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And if I lost, um, I would have an 8,000 mile trip home busted up uh with a$5,000 American Express bill.
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So um, but anyway, the only way to win is either the other person is um you either knock them out, uh, they pass out from lack of oxygen, um, or one of the senior leaders in the room, probably the most uh senior authority in the room, would stop it and say, Stop, I've seen enough.
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You've clearly won decisively.
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And so I was I was doing that and I I basically won.
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And but the and I won the contract, but the the person in that room, the the senior uh leader, stood up and said, Stop.
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And he said, You are clearly the warrior maker, and we want you to make our warriors better.
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And that name, it just stuck.
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I was from that point on, I was the warrior maker.
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And they they started calling me the warrior maker, and then the other golf uh era of golf states, you know, they were all very closely connected.
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So Qatar, Kuwait, and Jordan, and they just started calling me that.
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And um I didn't really come to appreciate that until I really got into kind of being an influencer and a keynote speaker, because there are 300 famous Chris Harrises.
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And if you Google Chris Harris, I don't care what I've accomplished.
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I mean, I I'm like on page 10.
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There's just so many famous Chris Harrisons.
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But if you Google the warrior maker, it's me.
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So I really came to appreciate that when I needed some, you know, to be able to be found.
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So anyway, that's how that happened.
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Yes, and warrior is it's such a great word because you don't one doesn't have to be on the battlefield.
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Every day in life, we all take on little wars from our own negative thoughts to battling an illness.
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I talk a lot on this podcast about going through topical steroid withdrawal, and we call ourselves skin warriors.
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What advice would you give to the us everyday warriors out here?
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Well, I would say that so my definition of the word warrior is a little bit different than you know, probably what we see on TV or or read in social media.
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Um, most people immediately think, you know, combative um or protective, and and that's not how I view the word.
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To me, mindset and warrior go hand in hand.
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It's the space that occupies the it's think about two of the most important things that happen throughout the course of the day stimulus and our response.
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And the space between those two is where I choose to be a warrior.
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That's where mindset lives.
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It's the space between stimulus and response.
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I cannot choose, I cannot control a stimulus, but I most certainly can control the response.
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And to be, for me, waking up each day and choosing to be a warrior is saying, I'm gonna master that space.
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And the response will be not only my control, I will control that, but I will also take responsibility for that.
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Oh, that's so powerful and so timely because when we have these things that stress us out in life, whether it's literally something related to one's job or whether it's stress with the performance you're trying to do as an athlete.
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Give you a small example of just my last 15 minutes before we started to record this show.
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I managed real estate, and we have an infestation of bees in a shed at a property.
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And I don't want to just send the local pest control person out there to kill the bees because bees are so important to our environment.
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So I called around to some professional beekeepers and they'll come out to your house and they'll relocate the bees.
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Well, there is a really gigantic price tag attached to this.
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And I the stimulus was, oh my gosh, I don't want to kill these bees, but I have to relocate the bees and it's so expensive.
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And I was really having the meltdown right before we got together.
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But that applies so much to whatever, whether it's bees in your shed, to being behind the blocks, knowing that I want to do this performance.
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So it's the stimulus, the response.
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How do we slow that space down?
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You know, I'll give you an example.
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If someone asks you a question and you're standing here and they ask you, and there's other people standing around, and they all look and they they look at you to see your response.
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We feel this pressure to respond within a certain amount of time, right?
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Otherwise, we're inviting awkward silence.
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But why do we need to respond within a certain amount of time?
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Why can't we just slow it down?
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And, you know, so the first thing we have to do is we have to remove our need for anyone else's approval.
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All right.
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Um, the only two people we ever have to impress in our lifetime is the eight-year-old version of myself and the 80-year-old version of myself.
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That's it.
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And when I come to that place, then I have no problem slowing things down, even if it means disappointing the person who asked me the question.
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So, first and foremost, pick the pace that works best for you.
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And the second thing is um metacognition.
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Metacognition is probably the most powerful tool that we have in our toolbox for controlling that space.
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And it's it's like awareness, but it's 10 times more important than awareness.
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You know, Alan Watts, uh a famous British philosopher, said this, and it's one of my favorite quotes we are under no obligation to be the same version of ourselves we were five minutes ago.
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So anytime that stimulus hits me, this is what a warrior says.
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It may not turn out okay, but I'm going to be okay.
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And, you know, so the thing, the situation with your bees, for example, this may not turn okay, but at the end of the day, Kelly, you're gonna be okay.
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And we start with that, and then somewhere in the background is the only two people I need to ever impress is the eight-year-old version of Kelly and 80-year-old version of Kelly.
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And everyone else can wait because I master this space.
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So it starts, it starts with just understanding what the stakes are, and that's eight-year-old and 80-year-old.
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That's the stakes.
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And then it comes into more than awareness, it's hyper-awareness, which is metacognitive, metacognition, which is basically I'm gonna slow this down to the point to where I am going to learn and make micro adjustments in the moment.
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And by the time I do respond, I will be a better version of myself because of the way I chose to respond.
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I will be a better version of myself than I was five minutes ago.
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And we just live like this in this kaizen constant state of perpetual improvement.
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But we own that space, and that's how we control that space.
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So I'm so glad you talked about metacognition.
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That's a real buzzword right now in the sports performance space.
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Let me tell you how I understand it.
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It's being aware of your own thinking and analyzing your own thinking, where I used to not even be able to do that.
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I've done this work through dealing with anxiety, just having anxiety.
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I'm feeling anxiety because this is what I'm thinking.
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What am I thinking?
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This is what I'm thinking.
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And then, oh, I'm aware of what I'm thinking.
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Am I describing metacognition correctly there?
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You most certainly are.
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If you think about it from the standpoint that there's a lot of our life, 95% of our day, right, is on autopilot.
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I mean, the fact that you're you're blinking, you're you're inhaling, you're exhaling, your heart rate, your blood pressure, all of these things, um they're they're happening automatically and they're in the subconscious portion of your mind, which is the 95%.
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Only 5% if we were to look at our our bodies, our beings, uh, you know, physical, mental, and spiritual, if we were to look at them as a computer, the 5% that happens in the conscious mind is nothing more than it's the screen, the speakers, the video, the mouse, the keyboard.
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But the hard drive, okay, that's the operating system.
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That's the 95%.
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And most of that is on autopilot.
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So metacognition is choosing what you want to take off of autopilot.
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Because if it's on autopilot, it's taking into consideration pain, fear, anxiety, past hurts.
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It's looking at all of it and it's making instinctive automatic reactions on your behalf based on some of the worst experiences you've ever had.
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It's not really making those decisions based on the best experiences you've ever had.
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And so this is our power.
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We want to basically use metacognition to identify automatic behaviors and responses that are no longer useful.
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They no longer serve us.
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And the way that we do this, we have to be very mindful of the fact that there is a mental firewall that lives between our conscious mind and our subconscious mind.
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It's called our critical faculty, but um I call it critical Carl.
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He's this, metaphorically, he's this seven-foot, 400-pound, muscle-bound bodyguard.
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And he stands at the gate, the only entrance to your subconscious mind, and he is not going to let anything in if it feels unsafe or unfamiliar.
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This is why when we set new goals, we we try to get rid of old habits, we try to create new habits.
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This is why a lot of times we eventually just revert back because we didn't get past critical Carl.
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He gave us temporary access because we used a fake ID.
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You know, we had a lot of self-motivation and we established these really good goals and we surrounded ourselves with a network of people who would hold us accountable.
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And we had a lot of willpower at the time, and we were doing positive self-talk and NLT and all of these wonderful things.
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But to Carl, if it's not, if it's not a repetitive uh pattern that's fueled by emotion and that is attached with like visual imagery, he's not buying.
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And it's not going to stick.
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So when I when I think about my thinking, which is how I define metacognition, thinking about your own thinking, what I'm really doing is I'm trying to identify any automatic behavior that no longer serves me.
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And then I and I know how to get past critical Carl.
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And that's what I teach people who want to improve their performance.
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I teach you how to get past critical Carl.
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Because if you don't get into the subconscious layer, you're not changing anything, at least not permanently.
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How do we get past critical Carl?
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So there's a couple of ways.
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Uh, one is through uh meditation.
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Um, so what what it really is, is we we're in the wrong brain wave, right?
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Our analytical brain is pretty much critical Carl.
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And it's just it's running 100 miles a minute.
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So we really need to get into our theta state.
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And that's the state that like when you lay down at night and you know you're you're about to go to bed, you're getting ready to go to sleep.
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And it's those few moments before you doze off.
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That's the that's when you're in your theta waves, and that's when critical Carl is basically you went to take a break.
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Okay.
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And so that's a very important um moment.
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That's like a golden moment.
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We can do a lot right there if it's intentional and it's planned and it's repetitive.
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Uh, another thing that this is why people um engage in hypnosis, because hypnosis basically puts you in your theta state.
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Um, NLP is effective, but NLP takes a long time.
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So for people who want like change now, uh, that's why a lot of people will say, well, I'm just gonna go do hypno, you know, uh hypnotherapy because I don't have time for retraining my entire language and and learning to reframe, you know, every time I say the word can't, I, you know, so that takes a lot of time.
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So there's meditation, there's NLP, there's meditation.
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Um uh Neville Goddard came up with a really great way that I I've been using for years successfully, and he calls it the the state akin to sleep.
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And that is basically just before you fall asleep, you you you mentally play, you know, uh just some positive things, right?
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But um, I actually created a method that works really well for it's for people who look, I'm I'm not gonna sit down, crisscross applesauce, and meditate.
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I'm not gonna do it.
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You know, a lot of my buddies would laugh at the thought of meditation.
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They're just, you know, they they can't even sit in that position, let alone be still for five minutes.
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Um, a lot of people are not uh going to go through hypnosis.
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Uh a lot of people feel uncomfortable with that.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:34.240
I don't have any opinions of it just because I've never done it.
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:48.799
Um, and then the thing with uh, you know, the the state akin to sleep, uh Neville Goddard's method, which I think is wonderful, and I've had tremendous results, but we only go to sleep about once a day, you know.
00:20:48.960 --> 00:21:03.839
And if we think about what what really impacts the subconscious mind and gets critical Carl out of the way, it's it's repetition and it needs to have like emotion and visualization attached to it.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.359
That is what the subconscious really responds to.
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:15.359
And so I created uh a method called uh meta queue, uh M-E-T-A-C-U-E.
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:20.880
And it's for people who aren't going to do the other things, but they want change right now.
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:27.599
So, what I do is I say, all right, I want you to create in your mind a desired outcome.
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.559
Okay, and it doesn't really matter what the desired outcome is.
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.640
So I'll just give an example.
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:39.759
I have always wanted a red convertible Porsche with white leather interior.
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:46.960
And I'm willing to do the work, I'm willing to take on a second job, and I'm be very disciplined at saving my money, and I'm going to get that car.
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:48.400
Okay, great.
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:51.519
And I just use that example because it's very vivid, right?
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:56.240
People can imagine driving on a beautiful day in a red convertible porch with white leather interior.
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:56.880
All right.
00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.759
So you that's one, your desired outcome.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:07.119
Number two is now you create a five-second video of a future memory.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:07.680
Okay.
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:10.799
And it needs to be really detailed.
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.960
This is where the emotion comes in because we need repetition with emotion.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.680
And emotion loves visualization.
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:18.160
Okay.
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:25.759
And so imagine yourself just in that five-second clip of you driving on a beautiful day.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:27.119
You're observing yourself.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:33.440
You're standing on the side of watching yourself go by in that car on a beautiful day, sitting in the driver's seat.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.799
And as it goes by, you can smell that new car payment smell.
00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:38.480
Yeah, you know, that leather.
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:41.440
And okay, so there's your five-second scene.
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:47.200
So the third thing you do is now you make a statement of gratitude.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.000
And a statement of gratitude is very important.
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:51.279
Um, and I'll tell you why.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:57.920
So it basically says, I am so grateful for my red convertible Porsche.
00:22:58.240 --> 00:22:59.359
I love that car.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:00.720
I'm just so grateful for it.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:07.039
And you can say it under your because gratitude assumes that it happened.
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:09.039
It's an assumption that it has happened.
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:10.559
It's not wishful thinking, right?
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:13.680
When we're grateful, we're grateful for what has happened.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:15.119
And so that's it.
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:20.880
My desired outcome, my little five-second scene, and then my statement of gratitude, even if I say it under my breath.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.240
And then now the last step is we create the cue.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:29.599
And we need a cue that is automatic, it's habitual, and it happens a lot.
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:30.079
Okay.
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:32.480
So for me, I'm really serious.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.319
Like I want, I want change now.
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:38.559
My cue will be every time I pick up my phone.
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:39.680
Okay.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:42.319
Now think about this for a second.
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:47.279
The average American checks their phone 93 times a day.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:58.960
So can you imagine 93 times today, I am going to, for just five seconds, imagine me in that beautiful car, beautiful day.
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.799
And then I say, I'm so grateful for my red convertible Porsche.
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:07.039
And now all of a sudden, we will wear critical Carl down.
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:12.240
And it's just, it's, it's, it's just repetition 93 times a day.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:14.880
You could say every time I sit, that's my cue.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:20.160
Every time I stand, every time I walk through a doorway, every time I open or shut something.
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:21.599
It can be whatever you want.
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:24.240
Every time I take a drink of any liquid.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:48.559
And and but not only is do you get the re the repetition and visualization and the emotional charge and the gratitude that all happens in a microsecond, but more importantly than that, or at least equally as important as that, is your training your metacognition, which is one of the most valuable tools you have because you're forcing yourself every time you pick up that phone, you're thinking about what you're thinking.
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:55.039
And you're interrupting autopilot and you're inserting something new that is now useful for you.
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.880
And it works.
00:24:57.920 --> 00:24:59.599
That is fantastic.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:06.559
I was fortunate enough to go to the Olympic training center and they did relaxation, visualization, all of that.
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:10.640
But the cue, adding that cue, is really outstanding.
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:14.079
That's a great way to organize it for everyone.
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:15.200
I I love that.
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:24.960
And and Kelly, another really nice thing about uh the Medicaue method is like currently, right now, I have three very important desired outcomes.
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.000
And I have assigned a different cue to each of the three.
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:33.200
They all have their own video, they own, they all have their own gratitude statement.
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:38.000
And so and they all happen pretty frequently throughout the day.
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:40.480
But I've got three things going on.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:46.000
And what happens is uh one of the questions I get from people is well, how long do I do this?
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.240
Is it 30 days or 60 days?
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.079
You do it to where you no longer need the cue to remind you to do it.
00:25:52.319 --> 00:26:02.720
When it becomes automatic, then basically critical Carl has stepped aside and he has given you access to the other side of the red velvet ropes.
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.440
You have created a new Ural pathway.
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:07.599
That's that's fantastic.
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:10.480
I want to talk about resilience.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:16.640
And one of the things that I I have heard from a lot of different swarmers like, can you talk about this?
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:17.599
Can you talk about that?
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:30.079
But it all comes under the same heading of setbacks and hitting things from plateaus in your performance to injuries.
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:35.039
What separates those people who come back stronger from those who don't?
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:44.400
Well, you can't talk about resilience or overcoming adversity or developing that indomitable spirit or uh grit mentality.
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:48.079
Like they they're all in the same, you know.
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:51.519
Um they're all they all live in the same house.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.920
And you can't talk about them without talking about knowing your why.
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:06.160
Um because knowing your why as it relates to that specific desired outcome, okay, that's where resilience comes from.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:14.079
That's where indomitable, that's where grit, that's where overcoming adversity, that's where choosing the better perspective, all of that comes from.
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:20.559
Look, your why is what grit and resilience attach their teeth to.
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:22.640
How big is your why?
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.240
If it's important enough to us, we fight, we fight through it.
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:30.240
What are hidden rivals for competitive swimmers?
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:32.400
Elite athletes.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:44.240
And I can say this because I've worked with a lot of professional athletes, okay, who just whatever run a slump or were trying to make it to a maybe they were second uh string and they wanted to make it to starting.
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:49.279
And you know, even though you might be playing for the NFL, but you're sitting the bench, you know.
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:51.839
So to that person, that's a big deal.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:28:02.720
And I would say that interrivals, first and foremost, um you you have to be very aware of what it is you're trying to prove and who you're trying to prove it to.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:11.359
I I've always thought that the the athletes that that performed at the highest level were ones who were extremely competitive with themselves.
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:22.480
Um, the ones who are competing against the person next to them, um, I don't think will ever have the same competitive advantage as the person who's competing at that same level with themselves.
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.319
And when we compete with ourselves, we're competing with our ego.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:36.480
Um, we we need to understand so ego, anytime we use the word I, it's our ego talking about itself.
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:39.680
Okay, our ego is our identity.
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.880
And and I don't believe that it's our enemy.
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:45.440
I believe it most certainly can be our enemy.
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.240
If our ego turns on us, watch out.
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:57.440
Uh, that's when we go beyond confidence and we shift into arrogance and conceit and cockiness and you know, the person nobody wants to be around.
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:00.480
That's ego going into protective mode.
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:12.559
So if you're trying to shift your identity and your ego is not ready for that shift, it becomes protective ego, and that's where it becomes cocky, arrogant, self-centered, ugly.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:13.119
Okay.
00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:25.279
Blame comes from uh overly protective ego, not taking ownership, uh, argumentative closed-mindedness, all of these things are the result of that ego being out of check.
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:31.119
And it's out of check because it's resisting the identity shift that that is inevitable.
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:36.079
So I would say for athletes, I would I would first say, well, who are you competing against?
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:39.839
Are you competing in the person to the lane in the lane next to you?
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:42.720
Are you competing against yourself?
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:51.599
Or you come your own ego, uh, which that's probably the best one you can compete with, or are you competing with all of the people who told you you'd never make it this far?
00:29:52.319 --> 00:30:03.759
And there's no wrong answer, but look, the only way we can ever defeat our inner rivals is first and foremost, we have to be aware of what they are.
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:16.960
And then secondly, once we become aware of what our greatest rival is, whether it's fear or ego or you know, what have you, um, that then the next thing we have to do is we have to come to a place of acceptance.
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:17.519
Okay.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:21.279
I cannot heal it something if I don't accept it, right?
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:22.799
Acknowledge it and accept it.
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.079
So, so one, be aware of what your greatest ego is.
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:27.680
I can tell you what mine was.
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:33.920
Um, you know, I uh I never had approval.
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:39.519
You know, I I was I was born in adversity and I was raised in rejection.
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:46.960
And so I just never had anyone say, good job, or I love you, or you're enough.
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:54.880
Um so when I learned that I had this gift, um, I did I literally had a gift of martial arts.
00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:01.119
Like you could teach me something, and and I mean, uh like I could just replay it back to you real time.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:09.839
And uh when you compile that that gift, where you combine that gift with my work ethic, you know, I was willing to be the first one there, the last one to leave.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.720
I trained five to six hours a day, um, every day, even if I was injured.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.119
But I did it for the wrong reasons.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:22.160
I did it because I wanted the praise of man, I wanted approval.
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.400
I want people to uh I wanted them to respect me.
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:34.319
And I learned at an early age, if if if men think you're dangerous and you are dangerous, they respect you.
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:36.720
Now, it's a little messed up now.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.640
Here I am in my 50s saying this, but I was addicted to that.
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:46.799
So the better I got, the more dangerous I became, the more respect they would extend to me.
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:55.039
And so basically, what I was doing is I was performing at a super high level because I was insecure and I needed approval.
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:57.440
And it was the only way I knew how to get it.
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:08.400
Once I realized that that was basically my greatest inner rival was my insecurity, um, my fear of not being enough.
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.000
I didn't stop doing martial arts.
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:16.960
I just changed my why I was changed the reason I was doing it.
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:21.119
I didn't stop training hard, I didn't stop trying to be the best.
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:25.680
Um, I didn't stop with with my goal to to to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:27.119
All of that was still on the table.
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.319
The only thing I changed was why I was doing it.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:36.000
And I I made the decision that I'm just I'm gonna be great, but just for a different reason now.
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:48.240
So when when these elite swimmers determine when they're very clear about their why, then they could be very clear and and truthful about um about what is my greatest rival, right?
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:52.079
My my inner adversary, and then come to a place of acceptance.
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:56.000
Like I it was very hard for me to accept the fact.
00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:00.960
As good as I was, I mean, I was one of the top in the world at what I did.
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:09.200
And for me to have to look in the mirror and admit that I became this good because I was just like an insecure little boy inside.
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:11.920
That was very hard for me to accept that.
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:17.759
And uh so, you know, it it all starts with, you know, to thine own self be true.
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:27.119
Yes, and and it sounds like it also circles heavily back to metacognition, you know, thinking about what you're thinking.
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:31.359
Your why and your ego.
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:35.440
All right, Chris, second to last question.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:49.599
If you have 10 seconds with a master swimmer behind the block before they are about to go chase a personal best, what would you say to them in 10 seconds?
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:54.079
I would say walk me through your future, your future scene.
00:33:54.240 --> 00:34:02.079
I want I want you to tell me that that five-second scene that we create, like our Medicure, I want you to walk me through that scene.
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:07.599
I want to hear your future memory of you after you've already won.
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:10.000
Explain that with vivid details.
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:15.119
That might be hard for me because my race is like 20 minutes long, but I I know where you're going with that.
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.000
It's good advice.
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:17.440
What do you see at the end of this?
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:22.400
But yeah, but after you've won, you could certainly tell me what five seconds looked like.
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:27.920
That those five if those five seconds only would happen if you won first place.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:30.880
You could tell me what those five seconds looked like.
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:31.679
Sure.
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:32.159
Yeah.
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:36.880
The end of the race, like the celebration at the end when you see that that time up there.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:42.320
I think for most people, it's not about the the place as much as it is about the time.
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:47.440
I was having a conversation with an NFL kicker, pro NFL kicker, nine years.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:50.400
We were having this conversation just a few days ago.
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:56.559
And so everyone in who's an elite athlete, they have a different stimulus and response.
00:34:56.719 --> 00:35:00.159
Okay, so his stimulus began when the ball was hiked.
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:00.639
Okay.
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:09.039
And then the response was him moving toward the ball to kick that extra point, or moving toward the ball to kick that that field goal.
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:15.280
So stimulus, the ball was hiked, and then there was a few seconds, not even really a few seconds, before he actually made contact with the ball.
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.039
That was his response.
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:29.760
So in martial arts, the stimulus is when the person starts to even flinch towards you, like their hands could be down by their side, but when they make that move towards you, could be turning their foot, whatever.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:34.880
And then the response is when they're basically on the ground and they've been subdued.
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:35.360
Okay.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:52.480
So with swimming, it's a much different scenario because the the distance between the stimulus, like when they say go, and the response, which is when you finish the race, that's a that's a lot of space, right?
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:58.400
And so that's where we really have to create automation, right?
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:05.519
We we create a process to where that automation is taking place for those 20 minutes or five minutes or whatever.
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.639
So this is where automation becomes very important.
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:13.360
And so uh 20 minutes is a long time.
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:18.639
I don't I don't know if I'm qualified to speak about 20 minutes between a stimulus and a response.
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:27.360
Actually, you're speaking quite eloquently and accurately because it it does need to be automated, and it really is the hardest one.
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:33.679
Most people don't swim 20-minute races, most people swim 30-second races or minute races or two-minute races.
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:37.840
But for the people that swim the longer stuff, it is exactly that.
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:41.440
It is controlling that space for 20 minutes.
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:47.199
Because if you don't, you totally will spiral and you will have a horrible race.
00:36:47.360 --> 00:37:00.159
And so what I've learned over you know, 50 years of being a swimmer in the in the 20-minute space is exactly that, that I have to sing a song because I'm controlling that space instead of thinking about the pain.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:06.239
I'm I'm singing a song or I'm focusing purely on technique or my turns or my breathing.
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:16.719
I'm counting how many strokes I'm taking per length, but I'm not allowing critical Carl to come in and say, You really are feeling tired.
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:18.000
Why don't you slow down?
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:21.440
It would feel much better if you just slowed down a little bit.
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:23.199
Um, because there's always that voice.
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:39.840
So I think that's perfectly accurate to say there's a stimulus, there's a response, and boy, the longer it's absolutely known within endurance sports that it's that mindset in distance racist that will just crush you if you don't have control over it.
00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:44.800
Yeah, in close quarters combat, uh we call it OODA, OODA.
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:49.199
It's called the OODA loop, and not just close quarters combat in military.
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:52.559
Uh they teach it in like in in dog fighting in the air.
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:55.280
Um, but OODA is uh OODA.
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:58.639
We observe, we orientate, we decide, and we act.
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:00.559
Observe, orientate, decide, and act.
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:04.800
So in close quarters combat, that whole process takes less than two seconds.
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:15.599
From the time the uh the physical altercation begins until the other person is either subdued, controlled, restrained, you know, whatever, um, it's less than two seconds.
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:20.559
And so I live in an oodle loop of two seconds, you live in an oodle loop of 20 minutes.
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:31.440
Um, but at the end of the day, with as elite performers, what we have to do is they observe, that's the first O, and then they act at the very end.
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:35.119
Those we want always to be fixed because that's our identity.
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:43.599
But our our to improve our efficiency, we have to automate the center two letters, orientate and decide.
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:45.199
Those have to be automated.
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:50.000
And um, the more you automate those two, the more you become just elite.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:51.679
Oh, I love that.
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:52.159
I love that.
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:53.920
I'm so glad that's going to be in the show notes.
00:38:54.079 --> 00:39:02.960
All right, Chris, last question, which I ask on every show, is there anything that we have not talked about that you would like to share with our listeners?
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:09.840
Uh you know, I I'll give you a quote that I absolutely love.
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:14.159
And I think I would just like for everyone to just maybe think about this for a moment.
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:26.800
But a famous philosopher, Carl Jung, he said that until we can make the unconscious part of our mind conscious metacognition.
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:35.360
Until we can make the unconscious part of our mind conscious, it will control our lives and we'll call it fate.
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:38.320
Oh, I that's fabulous.
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:41.280
I just I would like to leave you with that thought.
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:47.199
And then the advice, if I could give some advice, free advice and worth every penny.
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:53.119
Never withhold love if it's within your ability to give it.
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:56.960
Oh, that that one that one resonates so well with me.
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:03.519
I tell so many people that I love them because I genuinely do, and a lot of them are so uncomfortable with it, but just do it anyway.
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:11.440
Chris, your new book, The Mindset Book, a very simple title, but tell us what we might learn from it.
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:15.679
It's on Amazon, a paperback, Kindle, and now Audible.
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:22.960
And I paid a professional narrator to narrate, but it's the book of mindset, and it's on it's on Amazon.
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:29.840
It's the 14th book that I've written over 25 years, and I would say that it's the one I'm most proud of.
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:31.519
Oh, that's saying something.
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:34.559
I'm gonna check that out and I'll have that in the show notes as well.
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:37.280
So thank you so much for this time today.
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:38.239
It was fabulous.
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:39.280
I know I learned a lot.
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:43.199
I hope everybody listening did, and uh wishing you all the best, Chris.
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:43.760
Thank you.
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:45.119
Thank you very much.
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:48.719
Thank you for listening to the Champions Mojo podcast.
00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:52.400
Would you consider leaving us a five star review on Apple?
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:54.800
That's like getting a best time for us.
00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:57.599
Kelly and our team would be so grateful.
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.559
See you next week for another Boost of Mojo.
