Feb. 9, 2026
Recovery Begins At Night: Rethinking Beds, Cooling, And Habits, Sleep Expert Derek Hales, EP 303
Sleep is the most powerful legal performance enhancer you’re not fully using yet. We brought in Derek Hales, founder of NapLab and one of the most trusted voices in mattress testing, to strip away hype and show how smarter choices at night translate to stronger training, faster recovery, and better moods.
We dig into the single biggest mattress mistake—price extremes—and map the sweet spot where quality and longevity meet: a queen in the $1,500–$2,000 range. Derek explains why most athletes thrive on a medium to medium-firm hybrid for balanced pressure relief, spine alignment, and airflow, and when memory foam’s contouring or latex’s buoyant feel makes sense. Sensitive to smell? We break down off-gassing, VOCs, and why natural latex still carries a rubber odor even if it’s less concerning than polyurethane foam.
If you run hot, you’ll appreciate our deep dive on cooling—what truly works, what’s marketing, and how to build a cooler sleep system from the mattress up. We compare active cooling options like Eight Sleep, ChiliPad, and BedJet, weighing performance, noise, and cost so you invest wisely. Beyond gear, we focus on habits that move the needle: ideal room temps in the high 60s, blackout and fans for stubborn climates, consistent bedtimes, device-free wind-downs, and 5-minute mindfulness to quiet the mental to-do loop. Derek also shares intriguing evidence around Celliant fabrics for circulation and recovery, plus practical strategies for couples—from twin XL splits to separate rooms—so both partners get deep, uninterrupted rest.
Whether you’re a masters swimmer or a wellness-driven listener, expect clear, actionable guidance to turn sleep into your competitive edge. If you enjoyed this conversation, follow the show, share it with a teammate who trains early, and leave a quick review—your support helps more athletes find the recovery they deserve.
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
You can learn more about the Host and Founder of Champions Mojo at www.KellyPalace.com
00:00 - Welcome And Guest Introduction
00:23 - The Biggest Mattress Buying Mistake
03:20 - Finding The Sweet Spot And Feel
04:18 - Off‑Gassing, VOCs, And Latex Odor
07:56 - Latex Versus Memory Foam Tradeoffs
09:30 - Do We Even Need A Mattress
11:15 - Sleep Positions And Habituation
12:46 - Sleep’s Impact On Recovery And Longevity
14:25 - Power Naps That Help Not Hurt
15:59 - Room Temperature Versus Cooling Beds
18:14 - What Actually Cools In A Mattress
20:55 - Active Cooling Systems Compared
22:55 - Noise, Off‑Gassing, And Practical Use
24:08 - Pajamas, Celliant, And Recovery
26:10 - Simple Pre‑Sleep Routine That Works
28:00 - Separate Bedrooms And Better Sleep
31:15 - Final Buying Advice And Budgets
33:21 - Free Personalized Mattress Recommendations
34:11 - Closing And Review Request
WEBVTT
00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:02.000
Hello, friends.
00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:16.160
Welcome to the Champions Mojo podcast, where we bring you interviews and topics to help you live well and swim well, conversations especially meaningful for master swimmers and anyone striving to perform better in the water or in life.
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:18.160
We're here to champion you.
00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:21.120
And now your host, Kelly Pallas.
00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:34.640
Today's guest is someone every master swimmer and wellness seeker should pay attention to because recovery, energy, and performance all begin with one overlooked pillar sleep.
00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:44.719
Joining us today is Derek Hales, founder of Knapp Lab, and one of the most trusted experts in mattress testing and sleep optimization.
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:51.359
Derek's journey started as a newlywed, simply trying to find a better mattress without paying showroom prices.
00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:59.840
That curiosity turned into deep research, and what began as a one-person project quickly grew into a full testing lab.
00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:10.159
Today, Derek and his team have tested more than 500 mattresses, helping millions of people make smarter, evidence-based decisions about their sleep.
00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:21.280
For masters, Derek's work matters because better sleep means better recovery, stronger training sessions, fewer aches, and more consistency in the pool.
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:30.719
Derek cuts through the marketing noise and focuses on what truly supports the body, something every athlete and health-minded listener can appreciate.
00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:33.519
Derek, welcome to Champions Mojo.
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:34.719
Thank you so much for having me.
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:36.079
It's an absolute pleasure.
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:42.159
We are just so thrilled because sleep is just incredible.
00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.519
And like you, you were a newlywed looking for a mattress.
00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:50.079
My husband and I are actually about to buy two mattresses.
00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.959
And so he said, wow, this is perfect timing.
00:01:55.680 --> 00:02:09.599
So I I just I guess I want to start with what is it that you think is the the biggest mistake that people make when they are selecting a mattress?
00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:15.439
I think the the biggest mistake is simply not spending the correct amount of money.
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:17.360
And this kind of cuts both ways.
00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:25.599
You have the mattress industry that has spent decades trying to convince people that you need to spend five to ten thousand dollars just to get a good quality mattress.
00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:26.800
That's just not true.
00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:30.000
You do not need to spend five to ten K to get a right mattress.
00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:45.120
On the inverse, you have a group of people that are so opposed to this notion of spending a lot of money, they they've gone too far the opposite direction, that they think they can spend two, 300 bucks and get a mattress that's just as good as one that's a thousand or two or three thousand dollars.
00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:46.319
That's not true either.
00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:50.159
So you have these extreme camps that you really want to avoid.
00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:58.400
Most people will be best served by a mattress in that sweet spot, let's say around$1,500 to$2,000 for a queen size.
00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:05.360
That really maximizes sort of the quality performance that you can get out of a mattress before diminishing returns start really to pick up.
00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:10.240
So I think the biggest mistake is just not spending the right amount of money to get something that's gonna last.
00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:12.319
Okay.
00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.080
We have the bell curve out there.
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:18.319
We have people who overspend and then people who underspend.
00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:20.319
How do we find that sweet spot?
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.280
What are things that we might want to look at?
00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:33.599
Is it all individualized, like how tall I am and how much I weigh, or how many hours I sleep, or what would be some things to determine which one we go for?
00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:39.919
So definitely uh body weight, sleeping position, and also just general preferences around firmness.
00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:42.560
Those are sort of the big three things that we look for.
00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:52.400
That being said, the vast majority of sleepers are going to be best served by a medium to medium firm feel mattress that's$1,500 to$2,000.
00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:58.240
And if you aren't really sure what materials you like, latex, memory foam, that sort of thing, just go with a hybrid mattress.
00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:05.759
That's going to be multiple layers of polyfoam on top of a coil unit just to create a more balanced, moderate, and even non-polarizing feel.
00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:16.560
Again, the vast majority of sleepers are best served by that medium to medium firm feel,$1,500 to$2,000 and a hybrid that just creates a feel that most sleepers can be comfortable on.
00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:18.639
That's great.
00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:31.600
The thing that I find when I am buying a new mattress, which for whatever reason I've had to do many times recently, there is an odor that comes off of a new mattress.
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:36.480
And I'm I'm a super sniffer, as they call it, and I cannot stand that.
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.839
And so I'm thinking, oh, I have to have a green mattress.
00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.079
That's so tell us about the toxicity in a mattress.
00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:44.720
Sure.
00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:58.079
So the most sort of offensive type of odor, when people think of odor or off-gassing or smell on a mattress, what they're usually thinking of is polyurethane foam mattresses or memory foam mattresses, which is just another type of polyurethane foam.
00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:01.360
And the reason those mattresses smell is due to off-gassing.
00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:06.319
It's basically gases are trapped in the mattress during the manufacturing process.
00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:16.240
And then once that mattress gets to you, you cut the plastic off, you get it out of the box, the off-gassing period begins, and it's able to release those gases, those VOCs into the air.
00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:22.399
Usually within a week or two weeks, that off-gassing ends and the smell will largely go away.
00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:26.800
But some can take many months and some can just never stop smelling.
00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:32.480
On the inverse, there are polyurethane and memory foam mattresses that only smell uh for a very short duration.
00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.319
It just kind of depends on the particular foam formulation.
00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:44.560
One thing to note though, because a lot of people are under this notion that, oh, a green mattress and organic mattresses, natural mattress is going to be so much better.
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:53.920
Uh and in some ways it is, because while those mattresses do still smell, it isn't the same type of chemical-based off-gassing.
00:05:54.160 --> 00:06:01.199
When you're on a natural mattress, a latex mattress, an organic mattress, the smell is coming typically from the latex.
00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:09.120
So it's more of a rubbery smell, um, which most people still prefer that over the memory foam, the polyurethane, the chemical-based type off gassing.
00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:11.759
And yet it is still a very strong smell.
00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:18.399
So I do still warn people that are considering that, thinking that it's going to be like this silver bullet, no smell because it's all natural, it's all green.
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:20.079
That's it's just not exactly true.
00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:28.560
There is a very strong smell there, and that smell can also persist for you know anywhere from weeks to months, depending on the exact type of materials that they're using.
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:35.360
That's so disturbing to me that you're trying to get your rest and you're actually smelling VOCs.
00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:44.879
And sometimes, like you said, sometimes it's short, but still, even for me, one night of choking on a VOC up to, like you said, sometimes it's months.
00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:51.120
I I think I've actually had to like move a mattress into another room because I didn't like the smell of it.
00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:56.399
Is the off-gassing of latex better for our bodies than the VOCs?
00:06:57.680 --> 00:06:59.120
Volatile organic compounds.
00:06:59.279 --> 00:06:59.439
Yeah.
00:06:59.519 --> 00:06:59.680
Okay.
00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:05.040
And so most latex manufacturers will argue that there are no actual VOCs.
00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:13.040
Depending on your sort of hard definition of VOCs, you could argue that there is no off-gassing because it's not a VOC on a latex mattress.
00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.160
Some uh will argue that that's not entirely true.
00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:31.279
Uh, but as a general rule, I would say the smells, the gases, the odors coming off a latex mattress are not going to be as harmful as those coming off memory foam and polyurethane foam mattresses, just by virtue of what those material mattresses are made out of.
00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:37.439
And yet we don't have any body of sort of clinical evidence or empirical study around this.
00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:55.519
We we know sort of you know what those are made out of, and we know roughly the danger levels of those chemicals, and yet there's not any great sort of university-backed study saying that, okay, here is the danger uh and then the outcomes of sleeping on these types of mattresses versus these types when it comes to VOCs.
00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:56.240
Okay.
00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:02.399
I have taken everyone down my own personal rabbit hole, but I hope that some people will benefit from that.
00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:22.560
So is there a difference just in general in the sleep quality that one does get if you if you decide to go all latex or all organic, is that not as supportive or not as good of a mattress because you're trading that lack of you know possible more damaging VOCs for organic material?
00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:24.480
The answer is it can, right?
00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:27.360
And it really just comes down to your personal preferences.
00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:34.240
The the problem, if if you could say there is one with latex mattresses, is simply that latex is a very polarizing feel.
00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:37.919
Some people really love the feel, some people really hate it.
00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:43.840
It's very different than most types of polyurethane foam, it's different than memory foam, it's different than traditional mattress.
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.799
And so it's a feel that just doesn't work great for everybody.
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.279
And so, again, a lot of people kind of come with the notion like, oh, it's it's natural, it's organic.
00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:52.879
That must make it good.
00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:59.120
Uh, and it is good from a sort of healthy material, sustainable, you know, eco-friendly perspective.
00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:06.320
But just because it is all the same, doesn't make it a silver bullet in terms of meeting your specific needs as a sleeper.
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:18.639
While there are certainly more off-gassing issues with, again, memory foam, the type of pressure relief support, body contract hug that those mattresses create is really desirable for a large portion of sleepers and consumers.
00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:29.600
That type of bed, while it has again its problems with off-gassing, may still create better sleep and better restoration for your body at night compared to a latex, just depending on what really feels working well for your body.
00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:30.159
Okay.
00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.279
So do we need a mattress?
00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:37.120
Like, could we possibly sleep on the floor?
00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:42.480
I think in some cultures, they're on the floor and it's gotta be hard.
00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:47.360
Do we need a mattress or could we possibly work into sleeping on the floor?
00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:49.759
I think it's it really depends, right?
00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:57.759
I think if you look at Japanese culture and lots of different Asian countries, very firm mattresses with their, I say it's a mattress, they're not a mattress.
00:09:57.919 --> 00:09:59.919
Futons are very thin sleeping pads.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.600
They're very firm, they're almost on the floor essentially.
00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:12.080
I think if you've grown up sleeping on that and your body is accustomed to it, then yeah, that that is great and can work well.
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:28.480
However, I think for a lot of people in the United States and in many Western countries that have grown up sleeping on more, let's just say, medium to medium firm, or traditional type, you know, say 10 to 14 inch kind of mattresses, it is very hard to train your body into that.
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:30.960
And I think it's just kind of what you get used to.
00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:32.159
Can you do it?
00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:33.600
Probably so.
00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:38.240
Uh, in talking to my readers over viewers over the years, I've had some try it.
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:45.919
And in the vast majority of cases, they end up going back to a sort of regular mattress just because they just their body couldn't make the switch.
00:10:46.000 --> 00:11:01.120
And so it seemingly that you could force yourself to do it, but I do kind of wonder if your body, as you're growing up, sort of sets a certain sort of standard on what it expects as far as support and feel, and it just gets harder and harder to switch as you get older.
00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:09.440
Uh, that's just sort of, you know, my kind of guess based on sort of the uh just stories and uh that my readers have shared with me over the years.
00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:14.720
Yeah, I guess if you if you had to do it, you you you could, right?
00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:21.440
And sleeping positions, is there uh the a most common sleeping position?
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.720
Most common is definitely side sleeping, though the vast majority of us are combination sleepers.
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:28.639
We sleep in you know two or more positions.
00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:36.320
So, but side sleepers is by far the most common, something like 87% of all people sleep on their side, at least some of the time.
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:37.039
Yeah.
00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:38.799
I was watching a documentary.
00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:45.120
I don't think it was Nelson Mandela, but it was another person who spent a number of years in prison and then wrote a book about it.
00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:52.399
And they were they slept on concrete and they had to sleep on their back.
00:11:52.639 --> 00:12:02.080
They were allowed a pillow and they had to sleep on their back and they had to keep their arms crossed across their chest in a cross position.
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:13.600
And it was a way that the guards could see, you know, their hands were safe and what they were doing, and that everyone looked the same, so that if they were out of sync, then yeah.
00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:22.639
And the this person said, I think I I heard them on a podcast, they said that they now that's the only way they can sleep.
00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:27.440
So interesting, you know, just to your point that it's what we get used to, probably.
00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:31.840
But I thought, wow, and so many nights sometimes I'm going to sleep after I heard that.
00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:36.559
I'm thinking, putting my hands on my chest, but it's actually that's not a bad position.
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:44.559
I mean, if if you had to be put in one position and you must stay there, that would be probably, you know, something that we could all do.
00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:45.759
Well, okay.
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:46.720
All right, okay.
00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:58.320
We're gonna come back to mattresses, but I I want to talk about sleep because not only have you become a mattress expert, but you are an expert on sleep.
00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:09.519
So what would be something you could share with athletes, how we can think about sleep and how much it might matter in performance?
00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:15.120
I I think there is nothing more important to the body than good sleep.
00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:25.679
Whether when we're talking physically, mentally, emotionally, energy levels, mood, it is the single greatest determinant to, I think, overall well-being.
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.559
I think more than diet, more than exercise, more than anything.
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:30.320
A study recently came out just last week.
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:37.679
I forget the specific journal it was in, but they looked at uh sleep with respect to longevity and just how you know how long people are living.
00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:44.000
It was associated with greater longevity compared to all other factors except for one, smoking.
00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.200
So don't smoke and then make sure you're getting great sleep.
00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:50.559
So I think sleep is just paramount to everything we do.
00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:57.200
When we get great rest, when we're restored at night, the body can recover, the muscles can recover.
00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:04.480
Again, your your mood, your energy, everything is optimized at its best possible level when we're getting great sleep.
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:06.240
And the opposite is true when we're not.
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:09.679
When you cut the hour short, you don't get seven to eight hours.
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.159
You know, you're you're more likely to get sick.
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:15.679
You're going to have energy problems, you're going to have a harder time recovering.
00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:21.919
And that's particularly a problem for athletes who absolutely need sort of the best recovery at night possible.
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:25.120
And how about naps?
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:27.759
Do you have you studied naps at all?
00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:33.840
So nap is something where we've seen uh a decent number of university-backed studies over the years.
00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:43.919
Uh, and generally it the consensus is this that short naps can be great because they give you an immediate boost to energy in the day, help you get the stuff done that you need to that day.
00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.440
But generally you want to keep those short, like less than 30 minutes.
00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:55.919
The the problem with napping, if if there you could say there is a problem, is that once you sort of get beyond that 30 minutes, you're dropping more into REM cycles.
00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.799
Uh, and it just becomes harder for your body to come out of that.
00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:08.799
And so unless you sort of really, you know, time your sleep so that you know that, okay, in a 90-minute nap, I can have a complete REM cycle and wake up refresh.
00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:09.519
That's great.
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:15.679
But if you just let yourself go down and come back up anyway, that may then impact your ability to get to sleep at night.
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:20.159
And so you're just trading a nap during the daytime for lost sleep kind of at night.
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:28.799
So the the vast majority of studies that I've seen on the topic really point to keeping the naps shorter, 30 minutes or less as a sweet spot.
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:36.879
Yeah, I think I've definitely found that for myself that, you know, if I'm 30 minutes or under, it doesn't hurt me at night.
00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:42.799
Yeah, but if I go, if I go over that, if I had a really hard workout and I sleep for an hour, then it's just it's harder to fall asleep.
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:46.080
And then that's a bummer because then you start worrying, oh no, I can't fall asleep.
00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:48.960
I can't wake up for my morning practice.
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:59.039
But um, okay, so temperature in the room, and then we'll go to mattresses, these temperature regulating mattresses.
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:10.480
So the ideal, I believe the ideal, and you can correct me on this, but is somewhere in the 60s, like to have your room in the 60s, which is almost impossible to do if you live in a warm climate.
00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:19.360
Um you just have to crank your AC down, and then that's kind of a waste because you're cranking your AC and you you're covered in blankets in a hot summer.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:24.639
But what A could we do environmentally?
00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:35.919
Andor does that translate into, oh, you just need a a mattress that that's cooling because they are out there where the mattresses will keep your body at a certain temperature.
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:46.159
Yeah, so certainly if you can get your HVC to get down into you know 67 to 69 degrees, most of the sort of the university-backed studies that I've seen point to that being sort of the optimal temperature.
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:46.879
But you're right.
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:52.799
If you live in a hot climate like I do in Arizona, it's it's almost impossible, uh, particularly in the summertime.
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:59.120
Um, so in lieu of that, you know, doing kind of everything you can to make it as cool as possible.
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:16.240
So, of course, you have kind of all the stuff on and around the mattress, the the mattress itself, the sheets, mattress protector, your dravet and comforter, all of those are having an impact on how well the the bedding in the mattress is able to breathe, how well it's able to wick moisture and just in general keep you cooler.
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:21.039
So making sure you sort of do everything you can for the stuff that you're actually sleeping on.
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.039
And then we have this have the sub sort of in the room.
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:24.640
Of course, again, the HVAC.
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:29.200
If you have ceiling fans or box fans that are you know moving air around the room, that certainly helps.
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:37.279
Uh, and then as we talk about just sort of like thermal gain from windows, if you have a window, then you can you know close your blackout shades, close your blinds.
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:47.119
That will help particularly in the morning so that you're not you know getting uh extra heat into the room and just again having better control over the temperature and keeping it kind of as low as possible.
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:53.440
And now how about the actual mattress itself that cools?
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:59.519
Yeah, so it cooling on a mattress is by far the most important thing that you know sleepers care about.
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:07.359
You know, we are constantly surveying our readers and our viewers to make sure we know exactly what's the highest priority, and cooling is always the highest priority.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.200
And so it's one of those things that a lot of mattress manufacturers have figured out as well.
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:19.759
So they're trying to build cool mattresses, but they're also desperately trying to market themselves as a cool mattress, even when that may not necessarily be true.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:30.480
So when you are stopping for a new mattress, it's definitely it's good to have a level of skepticism about anything related to cooling because it's not all true, really.
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:37.920
Um, so when it comes to cooling, I think the the biggest thing that we can do is simply have a mattress that has coils.
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:43.200
So um mattresses are great in this area because they have a pocketed coil base.
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.720
It's going to create more airflow and more breathability in the mattress.
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.559
And it's just physically less material that can absorb and retain heat.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:59.039
This is in contrast to, say, like an all-foam mattress where it's just an entire block of foam that is going to gradually absorb and retain more heat.
00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:08.400
And kind of like no matter how good everything else is on that all-foam mattress, there are very few exceptions where an all-foam mattress is going to be a hybrid mattress.
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:13.279
So definitely hybrid mattress is where I would sort of start my search for cooling.
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:15.839
Beyond that, it gets really difficult.
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:21.759
And the challenge is simply because of the way that brands market their materials.
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:29.759
Uh, for example, something like gel as a material type can and does improve cooling on a mattress.
00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:34.960
But it really comes down to both the quantity of gel and the quality level.
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:40.319
So when we have situations where a brand has just sort of sprinkled gel beads in, that's not going to do much.
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:46.480
When they've swirled some, you know, 2% gel mixture into the foam, that's not going to do much.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:51.440
We need a substantial quantity of gel before it really starts to have a notable impact.
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:59.839
And that really kind of applies to all of the major cooling methods, whether we're looking at, you know, gel, titanium infusions, copper infusions.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:09.359
Infusions, whether we're looking at thermoreactive fibers, salient, whether we're looking at phase change materials that are in the cover or sprayed on.
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.400
We need both quantity and quality.
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:22.319
And even as somebody who really knows a lot about this, until I like physically put my hands, my body, and my thermal cameras onto the mattresses, it's really hard to know.
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:30.400
I can make a good guess, but brands have really made it hard to know exactly, you know, what's good and what's not so good.
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.880
And then as a result, it's hard to know just how good cooling performance can be.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:35.759
Yeah.
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:42.480
And then I wonder when you're bringing in all these weird, you know, chemicals and things that haven't been tested, like what is the gel made of?
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:43.759
What are the beads made of?
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:48.799
What is the, you know, that all adds to that VOC, which is one of my top things.
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.720
I mean, I really don't want to be sleeping on something that doesn't, you know, smell good.
00:20:52.799 --> 00:21:05.599
And then isn't there, it's not the mattress, but there's like this device that you put on top of your sheet that has a little machine under the bed that actually it's like a layer of cool water that you sleep on.
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:06.640
Are you familiar with that?
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:07.440
Yes, exactly.
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.880
So I sort of classify these products as active cooling systems.
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:16.640
So uh eight sleep, uh, chili pad, and bedjet are sort of the big three right now on the market.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:23.039
Uh now bedjet is distinct from the others, where it is more of a miniaturized HVAC fan sort of system.
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:28.240
It has like a special set of sheets and it's just sort of always blowing air onto the sleeper while they sleep.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:33.119
Uh, chili pad and eight sleep, these are basically water-cooled mattress pads.
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.680
So they have flexible tubing that runs through the mattress pad.
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:46.720
You put that on top of your mattress, you say if you want to be warmer or cooler, and then it sends the appropriate water temperature in that, drawing heat away with that water and helping you be more cool at night.
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:48.640
Have you tested any of those?
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:50.480
Yes, I've tested all three of them.
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:54.319
And what is your favorite one to be cooler, Mr.
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:55.119
Arizona?
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.640
I mean, AFleep is absolutely the best.
00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:00.160
There, there is no question.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:06.240
Uh, and yet the system is like two to five thousand dollars and also has a monthly subscription thing.
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.599
So it is just sort of absurdly priced.
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.720
Chilipad is something like$600 to$800.
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:18.079
Again, still very expensive, but uh markedly less so than eight.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.160
Bedjet, uh, I I don't love it just because I don't love air blowing up.
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:25.200
I know some people, you know, love the fans, so if that's you, like go for it.
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:26.880
But for me, it wasn't a great fit.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:36.640
So definitely I think chili pad is probably the best overall value, but eight sleep is the best performer if uh kind of money is no object and you just have to have the absolute best cooling.
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.279
Do you use any of those yourself personally?
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:40.640
I do not know.
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.680
I am not an especially hot sleeper.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:48.240
I have uh weirdly low body fat thanks to my dad's genetics.
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:53.119
Uh and so I am kind of just always cold, even when it's not really cold outside.
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:55.200
Oh, that's a gift.
00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:02.000
00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:16.160
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:18.160
00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:21.120
00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:34.640
00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:44.719
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:51.359
00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:59.840
00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:10.159
00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:21.280
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:30.719
00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:33.519
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:34.719
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:36.079
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:42.159
00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.519
00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:50.079
00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.959
00:01:55.680 --> 00:02:09.599
00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:15.439
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:17.360
00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:25.599
00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:26.800
00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:30.000
00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:45.120
00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:46.319
00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:50.159
00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:58.400
00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:05.360
00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:10.240
00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:12.319
00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.080
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:18.319
00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:20.319
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.280
00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:33.599
00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:39.919
00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:42.560
00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:52.400
00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:58.240
00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:05.759
00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:16.560
00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:18.639
00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:31.600
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:36.480
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.839
00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.079
00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:44.720
00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:58.079
00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:01.360
00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:06.319
00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:16.240
00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:22.399
00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:26.800
00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:32.480
00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.319
00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:44.560
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:53.920
00:05:54.160 --> 00:06:01.199
00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:09.120
00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:11.759
00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:18.399
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:20.079
00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:28.560
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:35.360
00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:44.879
00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:51.120
00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:56.399
00:06:57.680 --> 00:06:59.120
00:06:59.279 --> 00:06:59.439
00:06:59.519 --> 00:06:59.680
00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:05.040
00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:13.040
00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.160
00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:31.279
00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:37.439
00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:55.519
00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:56.240
00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:02.399
00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:22.560
00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:24.480
00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:27.360
00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:34.240
00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:37.919
00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:43.840
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.799
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.279
00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:52.879
00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:59.120
00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:06.320
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:18.639
00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:29.600
00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:30.159
00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.279
00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:37.120
00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:42.480
00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:47.360
00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:49.759
00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:57.759
00:09:57.919 --> 00:09:59.919
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.600
00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:12.080
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:28.480
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:30.960
00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:32.159
00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:33.600
00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:38.240
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:45.919
00:10:46.000 --> 00:11:01.120
00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:09.440
00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:14.720
00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:21.440
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.720
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:28.639
00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:36.320
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:37.039
00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:38.799
00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:45.120
00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:52.399
00:11:52.639 --> 00:12:02.080
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:13.600
00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:22.639
00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:27.440
00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:31.840
00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:36.559
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:44.559
00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:45.759
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:46.720
00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:58.320
00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:09.519
00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:15.120
00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:25.679
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.559
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:30.320
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:37.679
00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:44.000
00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.200
00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:50.559
00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:57.200
00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:04.480
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:06.240
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:09.679
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.159
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:15.679
00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:21.919
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:25.120
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:27.759
00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:33.840
00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:43.919
00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.440
00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:55.919
00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.799
00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:08.799
00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:09.519
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:15.679
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:20.159
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:28.799
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:36.879
00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:42.799
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:46.080
00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:48.960
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:59.039
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:10.480
00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:19.360
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:24.639
00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:35.919
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:46.159
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:46.879
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:52.799
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:59.120
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:16.240
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:21.039
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.039
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:24.640
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:29.200
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:37.279
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:47.119
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:53.440
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:59.519
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:07.359
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.200
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:19.759
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:30.480
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:37.920
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:43.200
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.720
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.559
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:59.039
00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:08.400
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:13.279
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:15.839
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:21.759
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:29.759
00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:34.960
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:40.319
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:46.480
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:51.440
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:59.839
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:09.359
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.400
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:22.319
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:30.400
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.880
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:35.759
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:42.480
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:43.759
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:48.799
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.720
00:20:52.799 --> 00:21:05.599
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:06.640
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:07.440
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.880
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:16.640
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:23.039
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:28.240
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:33.119
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.680
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:46.720
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:48.640
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:50.480
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:54.319
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:55.119
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.640
00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:00.160
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:06.240
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.599
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.720
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:18.079
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.160
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:25.200
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:26.880
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:36.640
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.279
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:40.640
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.680
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:48.240
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:53.119
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:55.200