Oct. 30, 2025

How a World Record Setter Trains, Tapers, And Thrives In Masters Swimming: Jeff Commings, ENCORE EP 291

How a World Record Setter Trains, Tapers, And Thrives In Masters Swimming: Jeff Commings, ENCORE EP 291
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Season 1 Masters Topics, Athletes & Coaches Interviews

One of our very favorite episodes on how to train, taper, and thrive in Masters Swimming. In this encore show we sat down with world record masters swimmer and veteran swim journalist Jeff Cummings to map out a smarter path to speed: focused training, practical tapering, honest recovery, and habits you can sustain with a full-time job and a full life. Jeff opens up about training alone and still finding intensity, the “exercise sets” that harden race finish, and why four quality days plus one true recovery swim beat mindless yardage every time. Everyone wants to know how to taper for a Masters Swim Meet!

We dig into how to build speed as an aging athlete, especially for triathletes and distance swimmers crossing into 50s and 100s. Jeff’s method is clear: make sprinting a skill you practice year-round, target stroke rate and pull mechanics, and give your body six to twelve months to adapt. His taper philosophy flips convention—most masters don’t need two weeks off. He keeps sessions at or above 2,500 yards, trims intensity to preserve pop, and stops heavy weights about ten days out so he shows up springy, not stale.

Strength, recovery, and nutrition round out the engine. Twice-weekly lifting maintains muscle mass without bulking. Stretching isn’t optional; Jeff builds mobility into pool decks, showers, and daily routines so soreness doesn’t harden into tightness. His “daytime vegan” approach—plant-forward days with animal protein at night—dropped his cholesterol, stabilized energy, and restored race power. We also explore stress and blood pressure, the realities of running a business, and the mindset tools that turn lactic burn into competitive fuel.

Beyond performance, Jeff champions inclusion through Swimmers For Change. He shares simple ways to diversify the pool deck: invite a friend, buy the first lesson, follow up until it sticks. If you’re looking for masters swimming tips, sprint training for adults, taper strategy, dryland strength, recovery stretching, and inclusive community building, this conversation brings it all together in a plan you can actually live. If it helps you, share it with a teammate, subscribe for more, and leave a quick review so others can find the show.

Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.

Check out Kelly's Books at www.KellyPalace.com

00:00 - Host Update: Book And Reboot

01:56 - Meet Jeff Cummings

04:12 - Training Alone And Staying Consistent

06:30 - Weekly Structure And Hard Sets

09:00 - Race Mindset And Pain Management

12:00 - Building Speed For Endurance Athletes

14:30 - Strength Training And Muscle Maintenance

16:40 - Masters Taper Philosophy

19:10 - Soreness, Recovery, And Stretching

22:00 - Nutrition And The Daytime Vegan Approach

25:00 - Blood Pressure, Stress, And Life Balance

26:40 - Swimmers For Change And Inclusion

28:20 - Lightning Round: Personal Preferences

30:20 - Host Takeaways And Key Lessons

32:20 - Reviews, Thanks, And How To Connect

WEBVTT

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Full disclosure, I hate going to the gym.

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I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I do not like it.

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I never have from the time I started doing dryland gym workouts when I was 17 until now.

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So 31 years.

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I have never been like, yay, I'm going to the gym to lift weights, to do squats and all that.

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I've never liked it, but I do it because I know I have to.

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Hello, friends.

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This is Kelly Palace, host of Champions Mojo, your place for better health, resilience, and master swimming.

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I'm taking a short break from recording new episodes of Champions Mojo for two exciting reasons.

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First, I'm launching my latest book, False Cure.

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It's a whistleblowing investigative journalism book about a denied health epidemic.

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If you'd like more information on that, it's in the show notes.

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The second and most compelling reason I'm on a break is here at Champions Mojo, we're preparing for the January 2026 reboot of powerful new weekly episodes with expert guest interviews, inspiring topics, and tips to take your mindset, health, and personal performance to the next level.

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We will be announcing some incredible partnerships with the show, and I guarantee what we have in store for you will empower you and keep your mojo strong in the new year.

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While I'm preparing some of this great stuff, we've selected some of our best shows ever for an Encore series.

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My hope is that if this is your second time listening to this episode, you'll take away even more insight and motivation.

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Or if it's your first time, you'll love this episode as much as everyone else did.

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So settle in and enjoy this Encore presentation in its entirety.

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So we have a wonderful show for us today.

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We will be talking with Jeff Cummings, author, broadcast personality, and elite master swimmer.

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Jeff is a decorated swimmer from his college days at the University of Texas, Austin, where he was an Olympic trials qualifier.

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And currently he is a world record-setting master swimmer.

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He's also a media personality for USA swimming and has hosted the morning swim show and deck pass, among others.

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And Jeff has covered the sport of swimming as a journalist for multiple decades.

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Maria, what else can you tell us about Jeff?

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Well, Jeff just keeps performing at the world-class level, earning multiple FINA World No.

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Master's rankings in 2021 in the men's 45 to 49 age group.

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He's also fresh off the USMS Spring Nationals, where he won five national titles.

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He does this all with a full-time job.

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Jeff is a writer and the author of the 2010 book Odd Man Out, an autobiography, True Stories of a Gay Black Swimmer.

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We can't wait to talk with Jeff and get some mojo for our own lives.

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Jeff, welcome to the show.

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Yes, it's good to be here again, Maria and Kelly.

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After I can't remember how long ago it was.

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Yeah, but it was one of our first interviews, wasn't it, Kelly?

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I feel it.

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It was actually, it was show number 21.

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So it was 147 shows ago.

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Wow.

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So a couple of years, which we thought you were one of our most popular shows, Jess.

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And, you know, in our last show, we didn't talk as much about your, you know, drilling down on your master swimming.

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You know, we talked kind of broad strokes about how you've become this amazing champion in your life and your book and your career.

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And now we're kind of doing a season of master swimmers.

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And also we have a lot of triathletes and people that, you know, we're we're all aging.

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I can't believe you are already in the 45 to 49 age group.

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I was neither can I.

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Yeah.

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And so we're a bunch of aging athletes out here.

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So we kind of want to get some secrets.

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You know, how are you doing this high level?

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I'm talking, you know, really fast performances of, you know, you had multiple number one, world number ones last year, obvious US number ones, and you're doing this with a full-time job, you know, partner.

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You're you're just you have a full life and yet you're performing at a high level.

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How are you doing it?

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Nothing's really a secret.

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I mean, I get asked this all the time.

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I get, you know, people stop me on deck when I get out of the pool, it's like, you know, how many times are you swimming per week?

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Do you do this?

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Do you do that?

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So I get questions a lot and I'm always proud to answer them.

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I mean, even if I'm not trying to keep it a secret so that nobody can, you know, be as fast as me.

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I've I'm I'm totally willing to let people know because I want people to understand that you can continue to swim at a high level, you can continue to swim well as you age.

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And how do I do it?

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Sometimes I don't know.

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Sometimes I get to the end of the day, it's like, how did I get through that day?

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It was so much.

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Like, for example, this past Saturday, I got up at five to swim before I had an eight-hour workday.

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So part of it is you just do it.

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And if you get in that rhythm, I think that's the thing.

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You get in a rhythm, you get into some consistency.

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It's not as hard as you think.

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But I know a lot of people have trouble with the consistency because their lives are very unpredictable.

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There's so many things that they can't keep on a schedule because of just their jobs or their families or whatever.

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And I guess I've been very lucky to have the kind of a job and kind of a life that allows me to continue to be able to train, not the way I want, because I don't like training this hard, but to train the way that I need to and to continue to enjoy the sport.

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Well, how hard are you training?

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I swim five days a week.

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Usually I always take Sundays off.

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It depends on what day during the week I take off.

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And sometimes it's Thursday, especially this summer, because the pool where I swim is long course on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday.

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And since this is long course season, I'll take the one of the days off where the pool is just short course.

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So I swim five days a week.

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I used to count how many yards or meters that I swam every day, but I don't really try to do that too much because I get bogged down in, oh my gosh, I only did 3,200 today.

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What does that mean for next week or the next workout?

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I just try to get the most out of each workout.

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And I supplement that with two dryland workouts per week.

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And it's usually just weightlifting, but there's also some core exercises.

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I don't really need to do cardio in the gym because swimming is my cardio.

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So it can be very intensive.

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Some days I get a I have a swim workout that, you know, it's hard to get out of the pool afterwards, but I feel good that I did it.

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And I also swim alone.

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And that's one thing that I that is a product of my life.

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Because I teach swim lessons for a living and I'm teaching them during the day, I can't swim with a master's team during their typical workout times.

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Either I don't want to get up very early in the morning.

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The team that I want to swim with, they swim at 5:30 in the morning.

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And that's, I'm not going to get up that early, especially if I have a day where I'm not starting work until noon.

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Like, what am I going to do for four hours?

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Probably go back to sleep, which I don't want to do.

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And I can't swim at noon because I'm often working at noon.

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So my only choice was just is to swim alone.

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And that's really the hardest part because there are days where I'm excited about the workout and then I get to the main set and I'm thinking, yeah, my body's not feeling it.

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Is anybody going to really care if I cut this in half or only do two rounds instead of three?

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But I have to do it.

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And I know in my mind, I have to do it if I want to reach the goals that I want to reach.

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Are you coached?

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I'm my own coach.

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So I don't have somebody else writing the workouts.

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Actually, something I'm doing this year that's been very helpful for me is back in 2011 when I qualified for the 2012 Olympic trials, I kept a log of all of my workouts for that year after I qualified up until swimming at Olympic trials.

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And so that was 10 years ago.

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And I said, you know what?

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I'm going to try some of these workouts that I did 10 years ago and see how they do.

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And some of them, I'm like, how did I do these 10 years ago?

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And some of them were like, I can't believe I'm still doing this.

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And the times sometimes aren't as fast, but I'm able to do the set.

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And so that's been a lot of fun.

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So, you know, like today I did a I'm going, I actually'm going to do a set that I did 10 years ago that when I looked at it, my eyes were just like, there's no way.

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How did I do this when I was 38?

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But it's going to be a nice challenge for me.

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What is that set?

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Well, it's a set that I actually like.

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It's more of an exercise set, but it involves create the lactic acid.

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And so what you'll do is you'll do a dive 25 sprint and you'll climb out and you'll do 10 push-ups, and then you'll dive back in and do another 25 sprint.

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And then you'll do a 50 easy.

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And you do that six rounds.

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It's very hard.

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I did this when I was 38 when I was training at the Phoenix Swim Club.

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And my coach Mark Rankin used to love doing these.

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He called them exercise sets.

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And they are exercise.

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I mean, you really get your heart popping.

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But the goal is, especially on that second 25 that you do, your arms are going to be burning from the push-ups and you just have to keep sprinting.

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And you do it six rounds, and I vividly remember these sets.

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And, you know, you feel like you're failing.

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You know, you don't even care what the time is.

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You're just, it's all about the effort.

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And I'm looking forward to it, but I'm not looking forward to it.

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I'm looking forward to it for the challenge.

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I'm not looking forward to it because as again, I swim by myself.

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And when I did the set 10 years ago, I was swimming with the team.

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And, you know, there would be people there who would I dive in with them and I'd race them.

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And that creates the challenge and that gets you out of your own head of this really hurt.

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You're just wanting to race that person next to you.

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So I don't have anybody to swim next to when I do the set.

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And it, I know that's going to be the real challenge.

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So in general, if you're swimming five days a week, are you doing some short race pace mixed with endurance, mixed with that exercise?

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So tell us kind of what your training is and how you taper off of that.

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Because I don't know if you're going to Long Force Nationals, but you know, we're three weeks out.

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And if you're doing that kind of stuff, I don't know when you start your taper, but tell us kind of how your week looks when you're in a heavy training block and then how you taper off of that.

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I would say a heavy training block is kind of the six to seven weeks before I start tapering.

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And it's not to say, let's say, in the fall, winter, spring season that runs like almost seven months, that I'm not doing anything for the first like three, four months.

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I really am working hard, but it really is kind of mostly endurance.

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So in the heavy training, when I'm really getting ready for meet, it's not, it wouldn't be what you call race base.

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You know, it's not what Michael Andrew does.

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But I am specifically focused on how am I attacking this race.

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You know, if I'm thinking about training that day for 100 breaststroke, I'm thinking about how am I going to attack this race?

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And let's experiment with some things of doing die 50s long course and you know, experimenting with how fast I want to take it out and finding that easy speed kind of thing.

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So I would say out of the five workouts I do, four of them are definitely have some very hard swimming components.

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They may not be sprinting, they may be working on my 200 IM, which is another event that I'm working on this year.

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So it's not all just fast 25s and 50s.

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There may be some best average hundreds backstroke.

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There may be some best average hundreds freestyle.

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I do not like training long course breaststroke.

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I really, really, really do not like it because my heart rate gets really high.

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The lactic acid really gets built up.

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And as much as I don't like turns, sometimes that turn in a short course bull can really help.

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But I really know I have to do it.

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And it's really about just making sure that I can finish the race well.

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Because as you get older, your your aerobic endurance really does decrease.

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Your anaerobic anaerobic endurance really decreases.

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And it's really a lot harder to finish races.

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And so I want to make sure that when I get to those last, I don't know, 15, 20 meters or yards, that yeah, the lactic acid is building up, but I could think back to that hard set I did four weeks ago and think, I made it through that.

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I can make it through this.

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That that is my follow-up question to that.

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Is what do you say to yourself when that lactic acid builds up and you're in a lot of pain and you're training alone, as you said, you know, what stacking, you know, remembering what you've done, but what else?

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Anything else you say to yourself?

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I basically try to tell myself, just imagine this was the race.

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This is a race, and you have to get to the wall.

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Whether I'm racing a clock or I'm racing one or two people next to me, I have to tell myself, get to the wall, not just get to the wall, because you can just flail, but you know, I want to get to the wall with the greatest technique because the technique is going to help.

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Focus on the technique, focus on getting to the wall.

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And sometimes it that wall feels like it's never gonna get there.

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And I also know I probably have one more repeat to do.

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So, you know, don't think about, oh, I have one more to do, so back off.

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The whole point is if you're supposed to be building up this lactic acid and trying to basically swim through the pain, you just have to to endure it.

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And again, it's not, it does not get any easier as you get older.

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And it does not get easy when you're swimming by yourself.

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So I have to tell myself, just keep going, just keep going, just keep going, just keep going.

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And I kind of picture in my head what my, for lack of a better word, I think about what my rivals are doing and the fact that they're probably out there just churning it out.

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They're probably swimming with the team, and they are they're pushing it every day, and they were probably pushing it that day.

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And I have to say I can't let down because they didn't either.

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I do exactly the same thing.

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I imagine when my rival's out there racing and pushing.

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That's interesting.

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That's a great picking.

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But you are really fast.

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Okay.

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So what you're talking to a couple of distance girls here.

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So what you your training sounds a lot like when Maria and I talk about, oh, we did this grueling training.

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So you have so much speed.

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Where is your speed mixed in there?

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Because it is.

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I mean, you're so fast.

00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:13.279
You have to put fast stuff in there all the time.

00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:18.000
And I guess uh it just comes from me having been a sprinter all my life.

00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.799
And so it's not, it's not difficult for me to.

00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:36.240
I actually get more excited about the sprint sets than the best average hundreds that I do because they're, you know, there may be 25s on 40, and it's, you know, the point is to kind of get some rest or 50s on two minutes, the point being to get some rest and do them over and over.

00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:40.240
I get excited about it, even though I get to the end and it's really hurting, it's really burning.

00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:42.480
I can barely feel like I can't breathe, kind of thing.

00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:44.559
So it just comes from a life of being a sprinter.

00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:48.720
If I were a distance swimmer when I was younger and trying to be a sprinter now, I know how hard that is.

00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:54.320
I coach a lot of swimmers who are trying to be sprinters and they grew up as distance or middle distance swimmers.

00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:57.360
But mentally, I just get so excited about sprinting.

00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:04.639
So it's not difficult at all for me to do a sprint set, at least to think about it and right before the set get excited about it.

00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:10.559
But of course, in the moment, sometimes the thoughts come in of like, uh, maybe it would have been better to be a distance swimmer.

00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.120
You don't have to go 100% the whole time.

00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:13.600
Okay.

00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:15.679
I have first question and then a follow-up.

00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.320
What are your best average hundreds on?

00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:19.519
What's the interval?

00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:23.759
For freestyle, I'm gonna tell you long course just because I'm in that long course mic.

00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:24.240
Sure.

00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:32.080
Long course, the interval will be 145, and I'm trying to hold between 110 and 115.

00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:32.799
Okay.

00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:35.759
And it's about 30 seconds rest.

00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:42.559
And then the follow-up is so most people don't come into swimming with this great sprint background.

00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:46.320
Like Maria is swimming, her, she's she's a new master swimmer.

00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:50.320
She's gonna swim her first master's event, albeit it's it is a two-miler.

00:15:50.480 --> 00:16:03.840
But for those people that generally like triathletes come in, people come in that when they go to meets, they may have an endurance base, but they're gonna swim in their first meet, the 50-free, the 100-free, the 50 breast, the 100-breast.

00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:12.480
How would you recommend that those swimmers transfer kind of their endurance muscles to being quick in the pool?

00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:17.519
Well, it's very hard to transition from someone who used to do the mile to doing the 50.

00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:18.879
That's a big junk.

00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:23.679
I would say if you want to be a sprinter, probably a 50 is gonna seem way too short.

00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:27.120
You're by the time the race is over, you're gonna feel like, okay, I'm ready to go.

00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:32.799
So I would say 100 is the best is the best place to start for a distance swimmer who wants to be a sprinter.

00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.480
It's still a sprint, it's still pretty much all out.

00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:46.320
And, you know, the best thing to do is to know you're gonna do this meet well in advance because you can't say, oh, in three months, I'm gonna do my first 50 freestyle on a meet.

00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:50.159
You need to give your body time to start training for that and adapting to it.

00:16:50.320 --> 00:17:01.440
So I would say six months to a year out, you need to start thinking like a sprinter, getting into that mindset and in the pool, don't shy away from doing all those sprint sets and just embrace it.

00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:05.039
And your body's gonna rebel because you have slow switch muscles.

00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.720
And when you age, it's hard to turn those over to fast switch.

00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:14.559
But you could do it if you work on stroke rate, if you work on how you're pulling through the water, and if you just do the sprints.

00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:25.119
And again, I coach master summers and I have I have a few of them that want that are tri athletes, and they think of 200 freestyle is a sprint, and it is for for some of them.

00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:42.799
And I tell them they got to work on turning their arms over faster, and it's really hard for them to think about that because they're they're in that mindset of, you know, and I just did an Iron Man, so I'm thinking of keeping it long and strong and to think about basically turning it over really fast is foreign to them, but they're working on it.

00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:44.400
It's not that they have this meeting them up.

00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.440
They've been working on this for a year, preparing for it.

00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:52.480
And if you don't give yourself time to prepare for it, it's probably not going to turn out the way you want it.

00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:53.519
Okay, cool.

00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:54.319
Well, that's good.

00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.039
And you're dry land training, you're doing that two days a week.

00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:58.160
What does that look like?

00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:00.400
It's mostly weights, as I said.

00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:07.359
The hard part about this is the knowledge that I'm at the point in my life where muscle mass decreases.

00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.039
And I know as a sprinter, I have to keep my muscle mass.

00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:27.359
And I've been so fortunate and kind of surprised that the weights that I'm lifting now, like let's say for bench press or lat pull or leg press, they're pretty much the same weights that I've been doing since I was in my early 30s.

00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:35.200
So for example, you know, I'll bench press about 190 for 10 reps right now.

00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:37.359
And I've been doing that for a long time.

00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:42.960
Now, I could probably try to max out on that, but I don't, you know, I'm 48 years old.

00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:44.400
I don't want to break something.

00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:56.240
But I also, you know, I know that even when I was in my 30s or when I was in college, the point is not to like bulk out because that's very hard to you can't pull yourself through the water if you've got these heavy, dense muscles.

00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:57.680
And you just don't need it.

00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:02.079
I mean, you look at people like Caleb Dressel, I mean, he's lean, but he's strong.

00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:10.160
I mean, you almost all those sprinters, you know, Rowdy Gaines always says when, you know, they're stepping up on the blocks for a 50 freestyle, they're built like linebackers.

00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:17.279
I know linebackers, they're not built like linebackers, but they are big and they're they got broad shoulders, but they're not looking like Mr.

00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:18.640
Olympia out there.

00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:23.759
And, you know, they really push the weights and they make the muscles they have stronger.

00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.960
It's not necessarily about like increasing the muscle mass.

00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:33.599
But for me, it's about keeping that muscle mass because if I want to try to swim the times I want to swim, I can't just rely on the swimming part.

00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:41.200
I've got to stay strong and I've got to make sure those muscles are continuing to stay at least kind of the way they used to be.

00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:47.279
It's not to say that yes, I'm lifting the same weights, it's not as easy, but I am quite surprised that I'm still able to do them.

00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:50.319
How many hours a week do you train all together?

00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:52.480
How much in the pool and how much dry land?

00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:58.640
Well, I would say a typical swim workout is about an hour and 15 minutes.

00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:03.599
So that's five, six hours and 15 minutes in the pool.

00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:06.720
And then full disclosure, I hate going to the gym.

00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.039
I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I do not like it.

00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:14.960
I never have from the time I started doing dry land gym workouts when I was 17 until now.

00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:16.240
So 31 years.

00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:21.680
I have never been like, yay, I'm going to the gym to lift weights, to do squats and all that.

00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:24.880
I've never liked it, but I do it because I know I have to.

00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:28.640
And when I get there, sometimes I'm like, okay, this is a really good gym day.

00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.039
And it kind of boosts my morale about it.

00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:35.680
So I'm there twice a week and I'm usually around 45 to 50 minutes.

00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:41.440
So all in all, it's about seven, no more than eight hours in a week of actual training.

00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:43.119
It's not that I don't have the time.

00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.160
I can make the time to do more yards in the water.

00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.960
I don't feel like I really need to do that.

00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:54.319
And like I said, I could probably add, I've been asked, you know, why don't you add a day in the gym?

00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:55.359
Would it help you?

00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:00.559
And I it probably wouldn't really change much, especially since I don't like going there.

00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:06.559
So adding a day to do something I really don't like doing mentally probably wouldn't be a good thing for me either.

00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:08.319
We've got this training block.

00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:09.759
How do you taper?

00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:11.920
Taper is an art.

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:13.200
It's not a science.

00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.880
It varies wildly from season to season for me.

00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:22.799
But the general framework is I don't taper officially for more than six days.

00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:24.880
You know, there is no such thing in the matter.

00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:35.680
I can't imagine there's a master swimmer who needs a two-week taper unless they're training like 7,000 or 8,000 yards a workout because there's nothing to taper from.

00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:45.279
I mean, if you're going, I'd say the average master swimmer swims, let's say elite level, swims between 3,000 yards and 4,000 yards in a workout.

00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:50.000
I mean, if you're trying to taper down, you shouldn't really go too far.

00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:54.880
You couldn't, I mean, going 2,500 is probably the minimum you should be doing.

00:21:55.119 --> 00:22:02.319
Because when you get to a meet, you're gonna, if you count your warm-up, your races, and your warm down in a day, you're probably gonna be doing 2,500 yards.

00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:06.880
So if you do less than that, then the the swimming at the meat is gonna feel like you're doing more.

00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.680
So I always keep that mindset of never going less than 2,500 on my taper workouts.

00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:13.599
So I don't have far to taper down.

00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:16.799
And it's really just about reducing the intensity for me.

00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:29.200
So if I'm doing four out of my five workouts normally that are really, really hard, really intense, and having one recovery day, during a taper, I might do three days where I just do no more than like a hundred fast.

00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:39.599
But some days I'm one day I might do like a set that's 500 yards and total sprinting just to keep up that energy and kind of keep my muscles in shape.

00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.440
And people are like surprised when I say it's like six days.

00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:48.400
But you know, I remember the last time I did a two-week taper and it failed miserably.

00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:49.680
Failed miserably.

00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.960
I felt out of shape when I dove in for each race.

00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.240
I felt like I couldn't move, like my muscles, I had no muscles.

00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.240
You know, I was just going on autopilot.

00:22:58.319 --> 00:22:59.279
I knew what I was doing.

00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:02.000
The times on the scoreboard were absolutely terrible.

00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:03.920
And I said, I don't need a two-week taper.

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.039
I just don't need it.

00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:07.839
And so I said, the next season I'm gonna try one week.

00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.720
And so it was seven days, and it worked out much better.

00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.319
I had, I felt like I was in good racing shape, good swimming shape.

00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:15.519
I was ready to go.

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:22.000
And so I've stayed with that pretty much since this was 2014 when I had that two-week taper.

00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.079
So eight years, and it's never varied much from the length of time.

00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.759
But sometimes it depends on the training season I've had.

00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:36.480
If I feel like I've been training really hard and I feel broken down, I may take more days of hardly doing any sprinting.

00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:38.160
So you just have to listen to your body.

00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.720
And whether you're swimming by yourself or whether you're swimming with the team, you have to listen to your body.

00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:47.839
If your body says three days out, I'm ready to race, it's probably a little too early, a little too soon.

00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:57.119
So you kind of maybe should the next day do some hard stuff just to kind of get your body pepped up again, kind of break it down a little bit and then give it another day to rest.

00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:59.279
And then by meet day, you should be ready.

00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:00.640
But it's it's so hard.

00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:10.000
Kelly and Maria, I can't tell you how many times I have fretted over a taper where I've gotten to halfway through and I feel terrible.

00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:13.039
Like I feel like I am not gonna have a good meat.

00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:15.440
And then the next day, just fine.

00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:16.240
It's just fine.

00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:17.839
I'm actually more ready to race.

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:26.880
So if you go through a taper and you every day feel like you're ready to go, it's probably not gonna be a good taper because probably at the meat, you're gonna start to feel like you're a little bit out of shape.

00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:29.759
Or yeah, because you peak too early in your taper.

00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:36.400
So just the bottom line is listen to your body and make sure that you're not feeling race ready too soon.

00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:42.559
That is one of the best summations of a taper for masters that I've ever heard.

00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:47.920
And I just to drill down one more degree, so I I've clearly got what you said.

00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.640
Where do you stop the weights, the dry land?

00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:53.119
Yeah, the weights will start a little bit before that.

00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:57.359
So I stop weights maybe 10 days out.

00:24:57.519 --> 00:24:57.759
Okay.

00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:00.880
But I'll actually start to taper that off.

00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:05.039
So let's say, for example, my I'm not going to Long Course Nationals.

00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:09.200
I'm actually going to Mission Viejo for a swim meet in August, the week after nationals.

00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:11.680
So that meet starts on the 12th.

00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:14.000
Actually, the 13th is the first day I'm swimming.

00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:21.279
So I'm going to stop weights probably the second or the third, whichever that Thursday, because I lift weights on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.920
So that'll be my last day of actually doing weights.

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:24.960
And it'll be very light.

00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:32.799
You know, I'll just do two, two sets of 15, just kind of light weights, just kind of just making sure I feel like I'm doing something.

00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.400
And then I don't go to the weight room anymore after that.

00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:42.160
I may, you know, after, let's say on a particular day, I may do some core stuff just to kind of keep that intact.

00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:45.759
But it's I never touch a weight, never go in the gym at all.

00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:47.440
And I think that's actually good.

00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.559
I actually, one time I stopped doing weights the same day I stopped my taper, and I was still broken down for me.

00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:54.240
And I knew it was because of the weights.

00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:58.640
So I figured 10 days, I wouldn't say it's perfect, because again, it's a it's an art.

00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:02.000
There's no such thing as a perfect taper, but that seems to work best.

00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:05.200
I just have to ask, I woke up this morning really sore.

00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.079
And I was thinking, you know, I wake up every morning sore.

00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:13.200
Is that I'll ask both of you, is that a classic master's athlete thing?

00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:16.720
You're pushing yourself, you're doing different things, and you're just going to be sore all the time.

00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:20.160
I mean, I usually my mental attitude about it is, oh, great, that's great.

00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.319
But I sometimes wonder if I'm going too hard.

00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:23.759
What do you think, Jeff?

00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:25.519
Well, being sore is good.

00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.160
It's a sign that you're working hard, you're breaking your muscles down.

00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.319
But again, we're not in our 20s anymore.

00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:30.880
Right.

00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:44.559
So the one thing that I know people don't do, I would say, I would bet you if I pulled 200 master swimmers of all abilities, and I asked them, Do you stretch after your workout?

00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:46.160
The majority of them would say no.

00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:49.200
They just get out of the pool, take a shower, get dressed girl.

00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:50.640
You have to stretch.

00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:52.799
You know, that's how you get your lactic ass out.

00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:58.000
People just think, oh, you know, when the coach says do a 200 easy at the end of the workout, that cures it.

00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:01.039
But of course, you wake up the next morning, you're still feeling it.

00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:02.160
You have to stretch.

00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.640
You know, it could be while you're in the shower.

00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:08.799
It could be while you're on your way home in the car, you're on your way to work.

00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.319
I do that myself.

00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:14.319
I actually in the shower after the workout, I'm stretching.

00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:16.480
Before I get out of the pool, I'm doing some stretching.

00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:25.440
I'll always, depending on the pool I'm in, the lifeguards get a little freaked out because I'll go down to the bottom of the pool and I'll just stand on the bottom and just do this stretch.

00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:27.039
He's pulling his elbow.

00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:27.839
He's pulling his elbow up.

00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:30.720
Pull the two elbows up.

00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:33.680
Pull the elbow behind my head, do a nice tricep stretch.

00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.559
And so I'll stand there underwater for like 10 seconds.

00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.680
It's not that I can't get out of the pool and do it, but I don't know.

00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:41.599
It feels better doing it in the water.

00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:46.720
And I know the lifeguards, they know who I am at the pool where I swim mostly, so they know I'll be okay.

00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:47.680
But I'm sure they're looking.

00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:49.359
It's like, okay, is he coming up?

00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:51.519
And I'll blow bubbles just to kind of let them know.

00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:53.359
But I do that a lot.

00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:58.640
I'll sit there after I'm done and in the pool, on the side of the pool, stretching for like five minutes.

00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:00.960
And like I said, I'll do some more stretching in the shower.

00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.720
If I'm feeling it an hour later, I'll do a little more stretching.

00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:07.680
It might be my upper back and I'll do some stretches for my upper back.

00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:11.680
I'll just raise my arms over my head and hold my hands and just stretch my arms.

00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:12.799
That always helps.

00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:14.720
Stretching is very important.

00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:22.559
It's not to say it's going to help you not feel sore the next day, but at least you'll be able to get out of bed and not feel like you're, you know, hunched over.

00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:24.160
You can't, you know, stand up straight.

00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:25.200
That's good advice.

00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:25.680
Yeah.

00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:30.000
So I love having a roundtable discussion because I think our listeners will really appreciate that.

00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:37.440
So in talking about being sore every morning, do you ever take training blocks where you rest?

00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:38.160
Yeah.

00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:41.359
I mean, obviously I'm not sore on those times when I'm not doing anything.

00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:52.720
But when I'm when I'm doing so many different things now because I'm I'm doing running and I'm also I'm not a triathlete right now, but I am swimming, you know, which is new for me and different different kinds of swimming.

00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.880
So and then I also go to the gym and I do something different at the gym every time.

00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:02.000
So I feel like I'm I'm waking up a new muscle every day that I'm working out.

00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:02.799
So yeah.

00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.400
What do you think about being sore, Kelly?

00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:05.759
Is that part of your experience?

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.279
Yeah, but I do rest when I'm sore.

00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:14.720
Like if I'm super sore, then I will not beat myself up and I'll just take a day.

00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:18.640
I mean, it'll just be that one day out of a hard training block.

00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:30.400
Like if I plan to swim five days hard in a week and I swim four days hard, and then I have a hard, like let's say I swim Monday through Thursday, and I'm really, really tired and I know I have a hard workout Saturday.

00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:32.640
I might just not do something Friday.

00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:33.599
How about you, Jeff?

00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:37.839
Do you like beat yourself up if you just say, you know, today I'm just not gonna do this?

00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.200
Well, like I said, I know which day is my recovery day.

00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:48.400
Saturday is always my recovery day because one, I have to swim at six in the morning and it's just way too early to do anything really hard.

00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:50.000
My body is not awake.

00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:54.160
And I have a very long eight hour day of teaching swim lessons.

00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:59.839
So I'm not gonna, you know, beat myself to a pulp in the pool and then have to teach swim lessons all day because I'm not gonna.

00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.200
To be in the right physical or mental frame of mind.

00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:06.720
So I always know Saturday's going to be easy or let's say easier.

00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:11.279
Some days it's not going to be like a full-on just floating through the pool.

00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:15.759
So let's say on a Tuesday, I just don't feel good, like it's really hard.

00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:20.960
And I'll say, okay, so let's say on Wednesday, maybe I won't do sprinting.

00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:22.880
Maybe I'll just do some aerobic work.

00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:27.920
You know, I won't try to beat my muscles up too hard, but I'm not going to take it as a rest day.

00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:34.079
And, you know, I don't like that feeling of having too much rest because, like I said, I don't taper very long.

00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:36.640
I think my body's going to kickstart a taper.

00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.839
So I don't want it to start feeling that in the middle of the season.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:45.039
So that's why the one day is important and the two days off where I don't do anything.

00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:46.160
I don't go to the gym.

00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:47.200
I don't swim.

00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:50.319
I just, you know, that gear really gives my body a chance to rest.

00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:52.000
So I know I have those two days.

00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.000
So I just don't try to fully implement a rest day until Saturday.

00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:02.640
And the other days, it's really, it can be hard because mentally I'm like, I just don't feel like doing this that my body does not want to do it.

00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:03.599
That's the point.

00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:03.920
Yeah.

00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:09.039
You know, you have to, you have to break your body down and you have to train your body to push through its limits.

00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:16.240
Unless it's an if it gets to the point where it's an injury, then I'll say, okay, I won't do freestyle today because my shoulder is not feeling it today.

00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:17.519
But I'll do something else.

00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:20.559
I'll just put on bends and just kick that whole day.

00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:26.640
So on the day you're saying that you have a rest day, so you must be lifting on days that you swim then, right?

00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:27.279
Well, yes.

00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:30.559
I swim on Tuesdays and Thursdays and I lift on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:31.039
Okay.

00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.440
And then the other two days are completely off.

00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:37.920
And then your recovery day is the Saturday where you're just going easy swimming.

00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:38.640
Okay, gotcha.

00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.000
So four days a week is when you're really torturing yourself.

00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:44.400
And I already have my takeaways, Maria.

00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:45.920
I mean, I know where I'm going to sit.

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:53.440
Like this is clearly, clearly, Jeff, you are so successful because you work your tail off.

00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:55.599
I mean, you are like super hard.

00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:00.400
And we, you opened kind of with saying, like, we said, how do you do it?

00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:01.599
People want to know your secret.

00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:05.200
And you said, you know, you just get into a routine.

00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:17.200
And we love to hear from champions like, what other routines, rituals you covered a lot with just your swimming, but outside of your swimming that make you a champion?

00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:24.079
Something I've really stuck with since 2015 is having a partially vegan life.

00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:34.799
And this comes from my biology with high blood pressure and high cholesterol, something that medication wasn't really was helping, but it wasn't really doing all that it could do.

00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:42.400
You know, I'd get to a point after workout and I'd take my heart rate, and my heart rate would be about 180 after heart set.

00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:42.880
Wow.

00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:48.000
And then I'd take it a minute, or you're supposed to take it 30 seconds later, and it would only get down to 150.

00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:51.920
And usually a fit athlete, it should be down in the 130s.

00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:54.160
And so I was thinking, okay, I told my doctor that.

00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.119
And so in 2015, I said, you know what?

00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:09.039
Maybe I'm going to try this vegan thing.

00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:12.160
And I read books that athletes could be vegan.

00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:16.480
Very famously, Rebecca Sony, the 2012 Olympic gold medals in 200 breasts.

00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:17.440
She was vegan.

00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:20.160
So I figured if those people could do it, I could do it.

00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:21.440
I couldn't do it.

00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.519
I was fully vegan for three months, fully vegan.

00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:29.920
And I lost like 15 pounds in three months.

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.279
And I didn't see it.

00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:32.319
My husband did.

00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:34.480
And he was like, this has got to stop.

00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:39.440
And I went to a swim meet, and because I'd lost those 15 pounds of muscle, I swam terribly.

00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.119
And so that was my wake-up call.

00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:44.240
Because I was like, oh, I'm 185 pounds.

00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:45.279
Oh, that's great.

00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:46.640
That's awesome.

00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:48.400
And it just wasn't for me.

00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:50.240
185 is too light for me.

00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:52.960
I couldn't really pull through the water the way I wanted.

00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:56.079
But I loved being vegan because it got my cholesterol numbers down.

00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:57.279
I felt better in training.

00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.000
Actually, I was trained best I'd ever trained.

00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:01.519
But I wasn't racing well.

00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:04.079
People looked at me and said, gosh, you're so lean.

00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.599
Like at that meat where I swam horribly, people were like, You're so lean.

00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:09.119
And I'm like, thanks.

00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:11.519
It's not something I'd ever heard.

00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:14.320
And so I said, okay, I like the vegan lifestyle.

00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:15.280
It's helping my body.

00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:16.320
It's helping my cholesterol.

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:19.440
I could feel better in training, but it's not helping my racing.

00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:24.320
So the answer was that I needed more and put animal protein back in my diet.

00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:26.639
So I call myself a daytime vegan.

00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:29.519
So for breakfast, lunch, I have vegan foods.

00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:32.800
I have oatmeal with almond milk every almost every morning.

00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:36.480
Lunch might be a peanut butter and jelly sandwich pasta.

00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:38.079
Pasta is big for me.

00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:40.159
I'll have a tofu salad.

00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:44.159
Some of the plant-based hamburgers that they sell are very, very good.

00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:45.920
And I'll, you know, make some of those.

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:46.960
So I could do that.

00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:50.960
And then at night, chicken breasts, beef, pork, whatever.

00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:53.199
You know, there's no limit to what I'll eat.

00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:54.880
And I found that really helped.

00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:57.039
It put the muscle weight back on.

00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.599
And the next season I swam normal.

00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:01.519
I swam my normal stuff again.

00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:04.719
So that's been true for me since 2015.

00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:06.320
And I have not looked back.

00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:07.519
I love doing it.

00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:11.840
It's hard when I travel sometimes, but it's really worked well for me.

00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:13.119
How about your cholesterol?

00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:15.599
Did it stay down on the partially vegan diet?

00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:17.119
It's in the 150s.

00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.000
Oh, wonderful.

00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:20.159
It dropped 50 points and it stayed there.

00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:22.159
And so my doctor's very happy with it.

00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.760
I'm still on the cholesterol medication, then that'll never go away.

00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:27.920
But yeah, the vegan diet has really helped.

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:34.559
And again, it's not like I was eating junk food, but you know, I think it's the processed food that we eat every day that contributes to it.

00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:35.840
You know, I'm not big.

00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:42.880
I actually, before I went vegan, I would always look at labels and try not to eat foods that had high fructose corn syrup or anything like that.

00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:44.480
And it's hard to get away from that.

00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:45.440
It really is.

00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:50.000
But, you know, with the vegan foods, you can kind of forces you to really do that.

00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:52.800
It kind of makes you feel like you're going more organic.

00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.440
And, you know, I used to love vegetables.

00:35:55.599 --> 00:35:58.320
Broccoli is like almost daily food for me.

00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:01.199
I put it in my pasta, I'll put it in my tofu salad.

00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:05.840
I'll put it, you know, if I'm having a burger, I'll have burgers with, you know, steamed broccoli.

00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:07.679
And I love the lifestyle.

00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:08.960
It's very easy to do.

00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:14.079
Again, like swimming, if you're consistent with it and you really want to do it, it's not a problem.

00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:15.840
Did it help your blood pressure as well?

00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:17.119
Does it help your blood pressure as well?

00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:18.159
Yeah, it does.

00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:22.159
I would say probably the big thing that's affecting my blood pressure now is stress.

00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:29.280
You know, the stress of being the owner of a company and being your own boss and having a full-time job, it can carry some stress.

00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:32.400
And I know it does create some of the blood pressure problems.

00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:33.840
And I'm getting better with it.

00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:37.199
But yeah, I go to the doctor and you know, it's actually pretty good.

00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:42.559
But, you know, when my diastolic is above 130, they're kind of give me this look.

00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:45.679
But in general, it's much better than it used to be.

00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:56.239
So, Jeff, when you explain swimmers for change, and then tell us what we can do to bring more people of color into the sport of swimming.

00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:56.880
What can we do?

00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:00.480
What's swimmers for change and what can our listeners do to bring more people of color?

00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:03.119
Yes, swimmers for change is a really good program.

00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:07.440
We're just trying to get, we're just trying to create the diversity on the pool deck.

00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:22.159
And when you're talking about what you can do, if you know someone who may be Hispanic, African American, Asian, who is just thinking about that little thought about I could be a swimmer too, take them to the pool.

00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:24.000
Sign them up for a swim lesson.

00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:26.320
Don't just say, oh, you should do it.

00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:30.320
You know, be actively involved in getting that person into the pool.

00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:33.039
Don't just have them say, oh, I'll think about it.

00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:37.519
You know, if they think about it, six months later, they're going to tell you again, I'll think about it.

00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:40.159
You know, like I said, surprise them with a swim lesson.

00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:42.320
Say, okay, let's just start with a swim lesson.

00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:43.440
Let's see where you are.

00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:47.599
Or if they know how to swim, say, hey, come join me for a master's workout.

00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:54.079
Or, you know, maybe go to a public pool with them and just let's just swim together for 15 minutes and see what it feels like.

00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:56.320
Don't just assume that they'll do it by themselves.

00:37:56.480 --> 00:38:00.239
You have to kind of give them that gentle shove and they'll do it.

00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:01.440
And they really will.

00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:11.280
And I I've built a career off this for the past, well, full-time career for the past seven years of talking to people about, you know, you should get in the water.

00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:13.199
And they say, Yeah, I'll think about it.

00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:15.840
But I I know they'll never do it the next day or that day.

00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:19.519
And I say, Well, let me take your phone number and I'll give you a call and talk to you more about it.

00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:20.639
And I take their phone number.

00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:26.000
If I don't see them sign up for a swim lesson within a week, I call them and I say, What questions do you have?

00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.760
And I they actually are having questions about, you know, I don't know if this is right for me.

00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:32.480
And I tell them, there's nothing wrong with just doing it.

00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:42.960
And when you're talking about especially African-American people, it's a built-in fear of 50 plus years of society saying, swimming's not for you.

00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:44.480
They were kicked out of pools.

00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:48.559
They were, you know, bleach was thrown in the pool because they were in it.

00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:53.119
So that's built into their parents saying, that was my experience.

00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:58.960
And yeah, society may be changing, but yeah, it's not a good memory for them, and they're not going to put their kids in the water.

00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:01.199
Thankfully, my mother didn't think that way.

00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:02.480
And, you know, here I am.

00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:14.559
I love the advice of grab your friend, grab the person that you know you think might be a candidate to learn to swim, or even just join your master's program and bring them down to the pool.

00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:15.840
But that I love it.

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:17.119
Beautiful advice, man.

00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:18.400
That is good stuff.

00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:20.480
Jeff, are you ready to play?

00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:21.599
Let's go.

00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:22.639
Joe Bar.

00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:24.400
Okay.

00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:25.840
Cat or dog?

00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:28.960
Oh, I can't answer that because I have a cat and a dog.

00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:29.760
Oh no.

00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.679
That's like saying which is your favorite child, right?

00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:36.719
Yeah, I grew up with dogs and I was always a dog person.

00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:39.440
We got the cat, I said, I don't know if I'll be a cat person.

00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:42.559
Then I spent two minutes with her and I was a cat person.

00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:45.119
So cat and dog.

00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:46.159
Okay, okay.

00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.360
Are you a bed maker or not a bed maker?

00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:51.840
I am not a bed maker, not in the least.

00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:52.400
Okay.

00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.239
Milk chocolate or dark chocolate?

00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:56.639
Dark chocolate for vegan purposes.

00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:57.280
Okay.

00:39:57.519 --> 00:39:59.360
Kickboard or no kickboard.

00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:00.639
No kickboard.

00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:01.280
Okay.

00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:02.639
Mountains or beach?

00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:04.559
Beach, definitely.

00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:06.079
Football or baseball?

00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:07.440
Neither.

00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:08.639
Okay.

00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:11.280
If I had to pick, I would say baseball.

00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:12.239
Okay.

00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:13.280
Baseball.

00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:14.880
iPhone or Android?

00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:16.000
Android.

00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:17.440
Coffee or tea?

00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.800
I hate coffee and tea's good in the winter, so tea.

00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:23.519
Are you a morning person or a night owl?

00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:26.719
I do not like having to wake up early to swim.

00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:28.719
So I would say I'm a night owl.

00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:29.280
Okay.

00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.079
Does Jeff Cummings have any tattoos?

00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:33.280
No tattoos.

00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:34.559
No, that will never happen.

00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:36.000
I'll tell you just a quick story.

00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:42.400
I when I was in college, everybody on the University of Texas team, not everybody, but it was a thing.

00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:44.960
You wanted to get a longhorn tattoo on your body.

00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:51.840
And my sophomore year, my roommate got one, and a couple other swimmers I were good friends with, they got their tattoos.

00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:55.679
And they said, and I was driving them there to get their tattoos.

00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:58.079
And they said, Oh, you got to go in and get a tattoo.

00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:03.119
And I I went in and saw how it was done, and I said, No way.

00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:05.119
No way.

00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:08.239
I will wear all kinds of burnt orange clothes.

00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:13.519
I will show my burnt orange UT Pride however I can, but no tattoos.

00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:14.559
I will never wear tattoos.

00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:22.159
I see people with tattoos, and I don't know, part of me thinks they're cool, but yeah, you're well, no, it'll never happen.

00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:23.119
Yeah, yeah.

00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:23.920
I hear you.

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:24.480
I hear you.

00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:26.000
Marie's got some for you.

00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:27.119
I got seven.

00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:27.679
I love that.

00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:29.599
The little mini speech on tattoos.

00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:30.639
I feel the same way.

00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:33.920
Favorite your favorite color, Jeff.

00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:34.639
Blue.

00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:36.400
Favorite pizza topping.

00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:37.519
Pepperoni.

00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:39.119
Favorite vegetable.

00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:41.119
Broccoli, as I already said.

00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:42.239
We knew that was coming.

00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:42.639
Yes.

00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.760
Favorite swim complex that you've swum in in the US.

00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:46.960
Ooh.

00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:51.119
Well, I'd have to say, oh, this is tough.

00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:55.360
I've swum at the Indianapolis pool a lot for college and whatnot.

00:41:55.519 --> 00:42:01.679
I would say probably the King County Aquatic Center outside of Seattle had a couple of really good meets there.

00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:02.559
Nice.

00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:04.960
What kind of music do you like?

00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:07.039
I like anything film-related.

00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:09.199
So film scores, movie songs.

00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:11.760
I just love putting on John Williams music.

00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.880
Just, I mean, talk about getting away from things.

00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:18.320
I put on his music and I'm out of this universe into his music.

00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:20.800
Do you have to watch the films that go with the music?

00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:23.679
No, I'll listen to the music and I know which scene it's for.

00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:27.599
It takes me back to that scene or just the emotion that it's supposed to create.

00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:28.960
Nice.

00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:30.719
What's your shoe size?

00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:31.599
13.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:33.119
Can you cook?

00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:33.840
I can.

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:34.639
I love cooking.

00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:36.320
I actually, another quick story.

00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:44.800
Because I was raised by a single mother when I was 12, my older brother was 10 years older, moved out of the house, and I had late swim practices.

00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:49.440
And sometimes my mother would have food already ready for me when I came home.

00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:53.360
And sometimes I'd be like, Mom, I'll just make grilled cheese or something.

00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:58.880
So I learned how to make food for myself when I was a teenager because I'd come home so late, she'd be tired or whatever.

00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:05.599
Especially when I learned to drive, I would drive home from swim practice, it'd be late, like 8:30 or sometimes nine.

00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:09.840
And I'd be hungry, and my mom would probably be like, I didn't make anything.

00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:10.639
Can you make something?

00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:13.119
And it would be, you know, I'd try to whip up some things.

00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:15.280
I wouldn't just pour soup out of a can into a bowl.

00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:19.599
So she and my grandmother both helped me learn how to cook, and I still do it to this day.

00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:20.320
Love doing it.

00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:21.360
Nice.

00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:22.880
Okay, here's the last one.

00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:27.119
What word comes to mind most when you dive in the water?

00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:28.079
Oh.

00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:30.000
Ah.

00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:33.440
Oh, that was a great one.

00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:34.480
That is a great one.

00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:34.800
Yeah.

00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:37.199
Jeff, this has been so wonderful.

00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:38.719
I've gotten so much out of it.

00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:44.639
I know you know my husband, who's a huge fan of yours and swims in your age group and just thinks you are a god.

00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:46.960
I've asked every question he wanted to know.

00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:51.440
So I think everybody is going to be thrilled to hear what makes you a champion.

00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:52.800
And it's pretty obvious.

00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:53.760
So thank you.

00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:55.039
Thank you for your time today.

00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:55.519
Yeah.

00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:57.599
And being a champion is not just working hard.

00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:59.760
I think it's having fun too and doing what you love.

00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:00.800
And I love swimming.

00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.960
I can't do any other sports, so this is it, but I love doing it every day.

00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:07.599
And if I didn't love doing it, I wouldn't do it.

00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:08.320
Yep.

00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:08.880
Thanks.

00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:09.760
Awesome.

00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:10.800
Thank you, Jeff.

00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:12.239
Thank you both.

00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:15.119
Stay tuned for the takeaways.

00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:17.199
Want to succeed like a champion?

00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:33.599
Five-time Olympic coach Bob Bowman, coach of Olympic legend Michael Phelps, says Kelly's book, Take Your Mark Lead, is a powerful addition to your personal improvement library, and learners from all walks of life will gain key insights and enjoy this inspiring book.

00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:40.800
Take your Mark Lead debuted as an Amazon number one bestseller in five categories and is available online.

00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:43.599
And now the takeaways.

00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:47.280
Okay, Maria, what a fantastic interview.

00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:49.760
As I said, I got so much out of that.

00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:58.239
And I think, you know, this is the second time that, you know, we've interviewed Jeff, and this was a very different interview, different subjects, different questions.

00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:00.079
What was your first takeaway?

00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:03.679
Oh, there was so much value in any everything you had to say.

00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:07.920
And he's just got a beautiful voice and he's so easy to listen to.

00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:09.360
I could have gone on talking to him.

00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:16.559
But one of the things that, and I said it in the interview that really resonated with me is, you know, what do you think about when it's getting uncomfortable?

00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:20.559
You know, and and for all of us, it's the lactic acid building up.

00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:22.480
Well, at least that's the case for me.

00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:32.880
I mean, when I feel that burn, whether I'm cycling or or doing something else, I haven't, as I haven't gotten into really the ability to build up lactic acid in my swimming yet.

00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:34.559
I'm just trying to learn to swim still.

00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:36.480
But but you know, so what do you think about?

00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:37.519
And he said two things.

00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:43.679
When he said, I I imagine myself racing, because when you're actually gonna race, and he wants, you know, he's competitive, he wants to do one else race.

00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:50.079
So he I imagine myself racing, and I think this is what I'm gonna have to do to get better, and also while I race.

00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:56.239
But the second thing, which I've used as well, but I'm gonna use it more consistently, is he said, I imagine what my rivals are doing.

00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:02.400
You know, so if you're competitive, if you're getting out there and competing, your rivals are out there, they're training hard.

00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:13.760
If you, you know, if it gets uncomfortable, I'm gonna remind myself, oh yeah, you know, the person out there who has a chance of beating me in this event that I'm gonna do is also out there training really hard.

00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:17.440
So I better, you know, just train as hard or harder than he or she is.

00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:19.360
So that, you know, that really spoke to me.

00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.159
What about you, Kelly?

00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:21.199
What's your first takeaway?

00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:28.320
Well, on that one, I really think that can obviously apply to athletics, whatever spray you're in, you know somebody's training.

00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:30.719
But I even think that can apply to running a business.

00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:31.519
Oh, sure.

00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:40.880
Being, you know, being a good parent, anything that you're trying to do, you're looking at a role model or not just a role model, but also who are you competing against in business?

00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:42.719
How hard are they working?

00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:50.320
And, you know, something as simple as I know this is crazy, we just finally got our yard, our landscaping in shape, finally.

00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:56.639
And it's like one of the reasons that I wanted to do it is because we were kind of like the house in the neighborhood that our yard didn't look good.

00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:59.360
And I wanted to do it thinking about what my neighbors do.

00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:01.360
You know, oh, my neighbors do that.

00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:08.000
So I think you can do that, compare yourself on almost any level, certainly when you want to be competitive.

00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:09.440
What are your competitors doing?

00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:10.960
But I I really like that one.

00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:17.760
My first one was like that Jeff is just a hard, hard worker.

00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:35.920
I mean, I know we know that hard work is so important to achieve any goal of any kind, but this he takes it to the next level, which we've talked about, which is pushing, walking through that barrier of pain, crossing the pain threshold.

00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:36.480
Yes.

00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:40.719
And that is something that the top people have to do.

00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:43.199
And it's not even that to be the top person.

00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:46.559
I think it's to take your athletics to the next step.

00:47:46.639 --> 00:48:01.440
So if you're just getting into master swimming and you want to break into the lane that now you're in the lane that does hundreds on 150, but you want to be in the lane that does hundreds on 130, well, you're gonna have to be in pain.

00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:08.480
You know, you cannot swim 10, 100s on 150 over and over and never get into pain.

00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:11.199
So if you want to get, you have to hurt.

00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.239
And that is what Jeff is willing to hurt.

00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:15.440
I like that.

00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:16.079
I love that.

00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:17.679
He's willing to be in pain.

00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:19.280
He's willing to work hard.

00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:21.679
He does it almost every workout.

00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:25.280
And that is a commonality that I see in all champions.

00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:28.880
And I'm gonna do the same thing you did with my takeaway and apply that to life.

00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:32.159
You have to get uncomfortable to grow.

00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:35.599
And so that's true for business, that's true in relationships.

00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:40.719
And so we won't call it pain, but you got to get outside of what you can easily do, right?

00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:44.079
If I'm always doing what I can know I can do, I'm never gonna grow.

00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:45.760
I'm not gonna build my business.

00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:50.639
I'm not gonna, you know, so I have to be willing to do something that's new and different and uncomfortable.

00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:51.360
So I love that.

00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:52.960
Yeah, that's a great takeaway, Kelly.

00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:55.199
Okay, Maria, what's your last one?

00:48:55.519 --> 00:49:03.199
My second takeaway is really appropriate for me too, because my business is cycling and a lot of what I do for athletics is cycling.

00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:06.800
So I spent a lot of time thinking about bicycles and doing cycling.

00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:17.519
And his his sort of last thing that he wanted to say was he, because he his business is swimming and his and his pastime is swimming, that he tries to do some things that are just not swimming.

00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:22.559
So he tries to to take it and he's intentional about he goes to movies on Mondays.

00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:23.280
I love that.

00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:28.719
You know, just to try to completely detach from the swimming world.

00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:30.639
And I think that's I think that's really important.

00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:38.000
You know, whatever we're doing in life and sports is, you know, and even for me, I can say, well, I'm not cycling, I'm swimming.

00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:41.760
It's but I think it's important also to pick up a book and read.

00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:43.760
And that, you know, it's been, I was thinking about that this morning.

00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:45.199
It's been so long since I've read.

00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:52.559
I listen to books, I listen to a lot of stuff, but reading is different and I want to do more of it, and it's completely different from anything else I do.

00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:56.639
So I like that, you know, we talk about as the alternating theory of happiness.

00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:00.800
It's hard to be just totally focused 100% of the time on one thing.

00:50:01.039 --> 00:50:03.840
Yeah, that's really, really good to have time away.

00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:08.800
Okay, my final and wrapping up is the one that blew me away is stretching.

00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:09.280
Yeah.

00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:11.760
You know, just like you don't hear that enough.

00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:13.599
You know, and some I don't do it enough.

00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:22.880
For those of you that are just listening, well, you we're only doing the audio on this, but Jeff is a big, strong, strapping man.

00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:31.599
I mean, he's not like somebody that you would think as a ballerina or, you know, a gymnast or somebody that's that's constantly moving, swinging.

00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:34.079
You know, he's a big, strong swimmer.

00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:43.360
And you think, I just wouldn't think of him stretching, but that must be one of his secret weapons because he said it's really important to stretch.

00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:44.880
It moves lactic acid.

00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:51.519
And I think we could all stretch more, but you just don't think of, you know, this great sprinter.

00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:53.199
You just don't hear that enough.

00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:54.880
Yeah, that really spoke to me too.

00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:58.480
I don't it just feels like one more thing.

00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:02.480
But if it's gonna make me a better athlete, I'm gonna start doing it.

00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:03.679
But a key thing.

00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:05.840
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:09.280
Thank you for listening to the Champions Mojo podcast.

00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:10.800
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00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:15.599
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00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:17.519
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00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:23.199
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