How A Busy ER Doc Swims To Win 100 National Titles: Kurt Dickson, ENCORE EP 287

WEBVTT

00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:03.200
Hello, friends.

00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:10.720
This is Kelly Pallas, host of Champions Mojo, your place for better health, resilience, and master swimming.

00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:17.199
I'm taking a short break from recording new episodes of Champions Mojo for two exciting reasons.

00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:21.039
First, I'm launching my latest book, False Cure.

00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:26.719
It's a whistleblowing investigative journalism book about a denied health epidemic.

00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:30.719
If you'd like more information on that, it's in the show notes.

00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:53.679
The second and most compelling reason I'm on a break is here at Champions Mojo, we're preparing for the January 2026 reboot of powerful new weekly episodes with expert guest interviews, inspiring topics, and tips to take your mindset, health, and personal performance to the next level.

00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:05.599
We will be announcing some incredible partnerships with the show, and I guarantee what we have in store for you will empower you and keep your mojo strong in the new year.

00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:13.840
While I'm preparing some of this great stuff, we've selected some of our best shows ever for an Encore series.

00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:21.760
My hope is that if this is your second time listening to this episode, you'll take away even more insight and motivation.

00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:27.280
Or if it's your first time, you'll love this episode as much as everyone else did.

00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:32.560
So settle in and enjoy this Encore presentation in its entirety.

00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:35.920
I am co-hosting with Maria Parker.

00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:36.640
Hey Maria.

00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:37.519
Hi, Kelly.

00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:39.439
It's so great to be with you today.

00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:40.640
Yes.

00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:47.040
Before we tell you all about our special guest today, Kurt Dickson, let's welcome him to the show while he sits there.

00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:47.599
Hey, Kurt.

00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:48.159
Hey Kurt.

00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:49.280
Hello, how are you doing?

00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:51.439
Great, great to see you.

00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:52.879
So great to have you, Kurt.

00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:53.680
Yes.

00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:57.359
So a masters athlete champion.

00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.719
These masters athletes are truly amazing.

00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:07.519
They're living full lives with day jobs outside of their stellar accomplishments as athlete.

00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:13.199
And we are in the presence of someone who is a true inspiration in Kurt Dickson.

00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:15.759
He is a full-time ER physician.

00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:18.240
He has been on the front lines of COVID.

00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:19.919
We can talk with him about that a little.

00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:26.560
He said it is slowing down, but you know that he's been training hard while he's been an ER physician.

00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:30.879
His master swimming resume speaks to what a champion he is.

00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:37.439
Currently, Kurt is 54 years old, specializing in the longer freestyle events and backstroke.

00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:45.520
He's been a US master's national champion 95 times, which means 95 All-American honors.

00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:51.599
He's also a two-time Fena world record holder, seven-time USMS long distance all-star.

00:02:51.840 --> 00:03:00.960
And in 2021, in the 50 to 54 men's age group, he added his first ever pool all-star honor, which is the highest honor in U.S.

00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:01.840
master swimming.

00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:04.319
But there's more, isn't there, Maria?

00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:04.879
Yes.

00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:05.520
Wow.

00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:07.599
He's not just been earning U.S.

00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:31.199
master swimming awards, he's also completed the highest honor in marathon swimming, known as the Triple Crown of Marathon Swimming, which get ready, includes the swim around Manhattan, which is 28 and a half miles, the English Channel Crossing, 21 miles, and swimming the Catalina Channel 20.2 miles, which in 2021 he earned the fastest time of the year in just over nine hours.

00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:37.120
And if that wasn't enough for us, he's also a five-time Iron Man finisher.

00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:44.400
So let's not delay anymore and get to finding out what makes this incredible champion tech Kirk Dickson.

00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:45.120
Welcome to the show.

00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:46.400
Thanks.

00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:47.120
Great to be here.

00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:48.560
So glad to have you.

00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:51.520
Yeah, Kurt, I we're just so excited.

00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:54.159
I think there's just millions of questions we have.

00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:02.719
We're going to start off with how do you have time to train for such long events with a schedule of an ER physician?

00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:06.080
It's just important enough to me to make the time.

00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.879
I've I've always I work a lot of weird hours.

00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:10.400
It's a different time every day.

00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:18.079
And it's hard to get into a schedule or a routine, but it's important enough to me to just kind of carve out some time to do a little bit every day.

00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:25.600
Do you have, do you have like, even though you don't have a routine, do you have a like be always before work or always after work kind of thing going?

00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:29.360
Or do you just every day wake up and say, okay, today it's going to be blah, blah, blah?

00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:37.120
I usually try to go after work because work kind of makes me sad and I don't want to, I don't want to be sadder by being more tired.

00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:43.759
But uh I I try to do it after, but I mean if it's if I'm like today, I'm I'm in a few, I'm going in in about an hour or so.

00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.920
So I'll I swam this morning, but I usually I don't like to get up super early anymore.

00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.040
I I I had 20 years of that and I don't really need it anymore.

00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:52.879
So I don't do like the 4 a.m., 5 a.m.

00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:53.600
stuff anymore.

00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.879
So I I usually try to do it, you know, after if I can.

00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:00.079
So you're gonna swim twice today?

00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:02.240
No, I'm just gonna swim once today.

00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.040
I swam this morning and then I'm going to work in a little bit here.

00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:08.560
Oh, oh, so when you get off, it'll actually be tomorrow, maybe?

00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:14.079
Well, it kind of will, it kind of will be, but I'll probably just go since I'm tapering, I'll probably just do once today.

00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.839
I don't usually do a lot of two-a-days anymore.

00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:17.120
That's the beauty of master swimming.

00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:18.319
You don't have to do two-a days anymore.

00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:19.360
You do whatever you want.

00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:20.720
So, what does that look like?

00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:39.120
What is what is a general week of, you know, we see that or we hear that you're not doing um, you know, a schedule, but is there a certain number of yardage per week or a certain number of days or a certain number of um pace sets, or what does that look like for you?

00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:41.920
I it's kind of various.

00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:48.000
I and my my rest times are more when I have like more work, so I end up like just maybe doing more easy stuff.

00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:55.759
But I worked yesterday and uh till midnight or so, and then I today I have I'm doing it, I did a taper workout.

00:05:55.839 --> 00:06:04.399
But I mean in general I do uh you know three to four thousand a day, and it's mostly for me, it's mostly I actually do the same set almost 70% of the time.

00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:07.680
Um it's kind of a weird, it's it just it's just easy.

00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:08.480
I don't have to think about it.

00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:10.800
I just go and do the same workout a lot, actually.

00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:12.560
So it's what is that?

00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:13.279
Yeah.

00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:14.959
What is that set?

00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:27.839
It's not all that exciting, but it's I do like three or four three hundreds like freestyle on like four minutes, and I try to, you know, descend them, and then I do four, three or four two hundreds um backstroke on three.

00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:32.399
Just try to descend those and then I'll do some pulling and kicking and get out mostly.

00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:34.639
That's about my general day usually.

00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:40.079
Yeah, just to translate that, because I know there will be people that might not understand that quick jargon.

00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.600
Um, so the 400s are on a 115 base.

00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:48.879
I mean the 300s are on a 115 base and the 200s backstroke are on a 130 base.

00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:55.040
So that's that's a pretty, pretty uh tight interval for most mortals.

00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:57.120
Um but three, go ahead.

00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:05.040
Yeah, my question was do you generally swim just whenever, you know, is your pool like a Y and you just get over there and swim whenever there are other people around?

00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:08.319
Do you try to ever make practices with another with a group?

00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:10.800
Uh where I'm at, there's nobody else.

00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:16.240
I've um yeah, I lived in Phoenix for 24 years and there was nobody there either.

00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:26.240
I mean, there's places if you wanted to travel, I just never was uh I used I sounded like I wasted a lot of time going to you know 30 minutes or 45 minutes to wherever else somebody is.

00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:27.920
So I I generally train alone.

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:29.600
Some people have a hard time with that.

00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:31.519
I don't I don't mind it as much.

00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:37.439
Um as a master swimmer, I can, you know, if I don't feel great, I don't have to worry about bracing somebody.

00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:44.079
I just do what do what is best for me and and it so it takes a little pressure off it and actually makes it more enjoyable for me.

00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.959
But some people absolutely have to have somebody else they won't do it.

00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:48.079
So everybody's different.

00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:50.399
But for me, I like just kind of swimming on my own.

00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:54.800
Have you always been self-coached, or do you or have you had a coach in the past?

00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:58.480
I as master's athlete, never.

00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:00.160
I've always just swam on my own.

00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:04.079
So I'd I've been doing this since I don't know, 92 or 93 or so.

00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:06.079
And I've never really had a coach.

00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:22.160
So yeah, so um we we read kind of your your master's highlights, but for you know, your background as swimming at Brigham Young University, you were a team captain and did incredibly fast times as a college swimmer.

00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:30.480
What do you think that you carry over from your college days that have helped you as a master's swimmer?

00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:42.879
Um I used to think that that maybe swimming, like I used to somebody think I was maybe better at it because I worked so hard at it, but I think talent does have some role in in things.

00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:55.759
I don't I think it helps, it it helps to be have some background, and especially a technical sport like swimming, because I see I did I've done a lot of triathlons, and uh it seems like most triathletes just pretty much ignore the swim.

00:08:55.840 --> 00:09:03.600
And then and you can do that kind of because it's not that big of part of any triathlon, but it it is the the you know you can die from it too.

00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:12.159
It it's very it's so they I think it's important to have I've been in some the first Iron Man I did, uh it was Iron Man Utah, the guy died in it.

00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:18.320
So, but it is it I think they they tend to ignore it, and uh I think it's helpful just to do that.

00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:31.519
Um, for for me, I used to do a lot of triathlons, and over the years I've kind of maybe I've gotten lazy, but I just feel like uh I could spend three hours being a like a above average uh triathlete.

00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:35.200
I could spend like maybe an hour a day being one of the best in the world at masters for me.

00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:38.799
So like it just for me, I've gotten like just more focused.

00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:52.000
I just I I think it's I like to be good at something and and I like I really enjoy triathlon, but it just, you know, I it's just so much time, and it's just it was just better just to be good at something and just keep keep going with it and also spend too much time with it.

00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.559
Do you do you when you're you know, you do these amazingly long swims?

00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:00.320
And I do long bike rides, so I understand what that's like alone.

00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:02.559
Um, you know, what do you what do you think about?

00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:04.879
Do you think about work or do you just breathe?

00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:09.519
You know, what do you think about when you're doing these long either practices or events?

00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:14.320
Uh the longer swims is sort of you got to check out a little bit.

00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:26.159
It's uh you know, the Catalina and the English channel, you're just you're just trying to like I a lot of times I'll just blank out, or sometimes I'll just sing songs in my head, or uh it's it's it's it's variable.

00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.039
Sometimes you just think about little problems you have or whatever, but it's uh it's mostly checking out.

00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:42.879
I mean, you you think about trying to try to clo across the English channel, it's about 80,000 strokes, and you just have to just it's uh you I remember when I was doing Catalina a few months ago, and I was just like, it's just pitch black, and you're looking off, like, I don't know if I want to do this.

00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:46.080
It's just like it's just darkness, and you just there's nothing to focus on.

00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:51.039
There's little critters swimming around, and it's kind of creepy, and it's you just kind of have to check out a little bit, I think.

00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:53.600
But it's it's it's one one step at a time, I think.

00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:55.360
That's you know that that helps.

00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:57.759
So that begs the question, why?

00:10:58.480 --> 00:10:59.759
I don't think I like myself.

00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:01.279
I like to abuse myself.

00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:07.039
I'm the youngest of seven children, and I just I I think I've just gotten used to just beating on myself and and and I don't know.

00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.279
It's just we're we're all by family's pretty competitive, though.

00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:13.120
But it it I don't know, it must be some sort of uh I think there is a mental illness I have.

00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:13.759
I'm not really sure.

00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:23.840
I haven't put a finger on it, but you're you're you're kind of being funny, but um, you know, as a physician, you know, you you see you do see mental illness.

00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:26.159
They walk into the ER every single day, I'm sure.

00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:31.519
Um it's it's no, I I I'd I'd love you for you to go a little bit deeper on that.

00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:36.320
Like, you know, you you keep challenging yourself with these really tough, tough things.

00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:41.440
Um, and you know, could I want youngest of seven, but you're 54, you got nothing to prove, you've done it all, you know.

00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:42.000
So why?

00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:46.799
Why do you keep on like what's next and why would you do that next thing?

00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:49.360
There's an old Warren Zevon song.

00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:52.080
I feel I'd rather feel bad than feel nothing at all.

00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:57.840
And I think that uh uh for me, I just feel more alive when I when I do things.

00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:01.519
I mean, there's not it just it gives me more meaning, I think, to my life.

00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:02.159
I don't know.

00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:04.960
It's it's uh sometimes I feel like it's kind of lame.

00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:11.840
I'm out, I'm 54 and I'm in a speedo, about ready to go to the nationals in a few weeks, and it's like, why does anybody you know, like why does anybody care?

00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:12.639
But it's like, you know what?

00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:15.840
I I enjoy that, it makes me happy, so I I do it.

00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:22.879
But that it there's probably uh a little of you know, this feeling of inadequacy that you get people struggle with too.

00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:37.200
This you know, you got to prove yourself, and you still and some people have it stronger than others, and I think I have it pretty strong, and you just you keep wanting to prove yourself, but there there is a little of just I think it helps you just feel for me, it helps you feel happy, so that's why I do it.

00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:39.519
I love that.

00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:40.240
Yeah, yeah.

00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:50.080
So discomfort, you know, you like the discomfort or like to at least be done with it, or the physical you said I'd rather feel nothing than or feel something than nothing at all.

00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:50.720
That's interesting.

00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:51.200
Okay.

00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:52.720
Go ahead, Kelly.

00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:53.039
Sorry.

00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.679
Your your master's resume is amazing.

00:12:55.840 --> 00:13:02.159
Is there anything within the master's community that you have not done yet that you would still like to do?

00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:03.919
Like what's on the list?

00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:09.759
Um, I I keep eyeing uh like world records that are like individual.

00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:15.039
I have like I've got some relay world records that that have gone, but I'd like to get an individual one.

00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:20.240
But I I I I I eyed them like 10 years ago, and then by the time I get there, someone's like just crushed it.

00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:22.960
So uh I'm getting old enough that I'm getting closer.

00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:29.200
So there's there's there's one that I I was looking at maybe that I can maybe get coming up here, but I don't know.

00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:30.159
It's one of those things.

00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:36.159
Yeah, there's not not a lot of other things that I really want to do, but I yeah, I would like to get an individual world record at some point.

00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:40.559
I'm not sure how meaningful it is when you're 110, but you know, right up.

00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:42.559
It does, it means a lot.

00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:43.840
Now live everyone.

00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:47.440
I I'm I'm just in the 60 age group and and I see that.

00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:50.159
It's like, okay, just show, just keep showing up.

00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:50.879
Yeah.

00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:51.279
Yeah.

00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:58.720
You, I I went through your database, your USMS database, and looked at your times.

00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:05.039
And it appears to me that you are not slowing down much, if any at all.

00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:16.559
If you, you know, arguably, if you took kind of an average of your 200, 500,000, 1650, you know, you might have you might be faster in the the 500, but slower in the 200, or faster in the mile, but slower in the 1000.

00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:24.080
But you're you're you're holding your own with these times that are pretty incredible from your thir 35.

00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:36.720
In fact, you have some times now at 55 that are actually faster than when you were 35, which um tell us how how you're continuing to maintain this fast pace.

00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:46.879
Um, so like I won my Twitter backstroke in 1996 with a 217, and I won it 20 years later with the same time.

00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:51.759
So it's I I don't I go well, I wish I knew the answer to it.

00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:55.759
Um, but I like I like to think I it's because I work hard and I'm consistent.

00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:56.960
I don't miss workouts.

00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:01.120
If I don't feel like something, I'll if I'm having a bad day, I'll just go swim a little easy.

00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.919
And I usually swim six days a week, right regardless.

00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:23.200
I don't know if that's it or God feels sorry for me, or if if it's like if it's if if I age better than other people, there are people I like would beat the crap out of me 20 years ago that I could either beat now or or beat or have a good race with them or or beat them pretty badly now.

00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:26.879
So I don't know, I really don't know what it is that I've done.

00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:33.759
Like I I I have tried to be consistent, and I don't know if that's a secret if I just have have you know good genes and I age better than other people.

00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:40.000
I mean, I my patients used to tell me like, you know, not too long ago they looked like a 12-year-old, but I I don't have that problem anymore.

00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:46.639
People definitely think I'm old now, but I I think I I I might have aged a little better than other people, but I don't know.

00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:48.080
I don't really know the answer to that.

00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:52.320
But I I've thought about it a lot and I really I I can't I can't tell you for sure what it is.

00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:55.600
Consistency and how about your body composition?

00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:57.200
Because I I I feel the same way.

00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:08.399
Like there are women that just crushed me in 35, 40, 45, um, and now you know they're either nowhere to be found or they're not, you know, in the top 10 anymore.

00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:13.759
So are you do you think there's a, you know, has your body composition changed?

00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.320
Has your your dry land routine changed?

00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:20.080
But consistency, can you drill down a little bit on that?

00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:26.399
Well, I mean, I I wish I could say I'd like I I worked, I mean, uh there's a lot of things I don't do that I should do.

00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:32.399
Like I eat, I eat like I like MMs and I eat a lot of junk, and I think I've gotten a lot fatter.

00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:36.720
I think since I was in college, I was like 150 pounds and I'm like 220 now.

00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:37.759
So I don't know how.

00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:40.320
So uh I I like my desserts.

00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:44.240
I do, I do go to workout lot, but I don't I don't do any weights.

00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:45.200
I do zero weights.

00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:46.879
So like I've never done weights.

00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:54.879
I used to at college go to uh the weight room and the the coach would try to kick me out of the weight room because he didn't know I was the weight coach, thought I was like didn't belong there.

00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:58.960
And the other swimmers had to tell him that I was like the best swimmer on the team and you can't kick him out.

00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:00.320
It was a good place for an absolute.

00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:06.400
Um I no, I I I think for me it was, I mean, I do this same almost the same set every day.

00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:14.960
I I I go every day, but I don't I as a as a master's person, I don't I I guess I could have been more more uh you know regimented, but I don't think I have been.

00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:22.240
So I don't other than just trying to make it to work out every day and not miss any swimming, I I I don't do anything else special.

00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:23.440
No secrets.

00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.039
My question for you is that you mentioned sleep earlier.

00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.599
Um, and I've I've had the exact same progression.

00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:39.920
I used to give up sleep to get up in the morning and work out because I'd think I'd have a better day if I did that.

00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:41.039
Now I don't.

00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:43.039
I I let I I get more rest.

00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.480
Would you tell tell us about talk to us about your your your sleep patterns?

00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.640
Because as a ER physician, I know that must be a little bit un you know unusual.

00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.400
And how do you protect your sleep?

00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:54.640
Um, yeah, it's pretty hard.

00:17:54.720 --> 00:18:00.640
I was uh till midnight last night, and then I'm working till midnight tomorrow, and then tomorrow I'm working the next day I'm working until 7 a.m.

00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:05.440
I'm working all night for three nights, and then I gotta somehow recover before nationals next week.

00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:07.920
And as you get older, it is impossible.

00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:20.640
It's like you you feel I'm not bad the day after a night shift uh that day, but the day after I swim slow and I end up a lot of times getting swimming arranged so that it ends up I'm I'm there, but I just try to do the best I can.

00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:25.119
But I'll you know, I'll I'll try to like take naps before work.

00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.240
Uh, you know, today's gonna be an exception because I'm spending lovely time here.

00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:34.400
But um I I just I I take a lot of naps and I'm not ashamed of it.

00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.640
I'll I'll try to just like you know, we we got this family thing we're gonna go do, or we're gonna do this.

00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:39.359
I'm like, you know what?

00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:43.759
I gotta go to work in an hour and I just need to lie down for a half hour, just relax.

00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:47.519
But so I it's it's hard and it gets harder as you get older because it's harder to sleep.

00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:55.200
I think most old people like I I I wake up three or four times a night to go number one, and uh it's uh it's tragic.

00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:56.799
It's it's hard to be back to sleep.

00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:58.000
And uh I don't know.

00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:01.039
I don't know how people how people do it, but I do the best I can.

00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:04.079
But as uh for me, a lot of it's just taking try to take naps when I can.

00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:06.480
But how about injuries?

00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:09.920
Yeah, what uh what if uh have you had any injuries?

00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:13.200
Or you know, if so, what does that look like?

00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:25.519
Um I've had some you know shoulder issues, uh, you know, and I I try to do like every day or every other day, I'll do like some shoulder rehab type stuff that everybody probably knows about.

00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:33.759
But um it it would that that that's helped, and I kind of change my stroke a little bit so that I don't impinge my shoulder as much.

00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.240
Um I've had some back issues.

00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:44.640
Um I do I try to do yoga like once a week just to that I think that's out of all the things I do, I think that helps the most for my back.

00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:48.559
Um so I try to try to do like just shoulder exercises and that.

00:19:48.720 --> 00:20:00.960
I mean, sometimes I I think the other thing with performance is like some of my best meets, I I like hurt my shoulder like you know, two or three weeks before the big race, and I'll just like kick and just bit minimize the amount of swimming.

00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:09.279
And I'm amazed how much how well you could do, even for like the distance events without with a lot of with a lot of rest and not not actually swimming.

00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:17.920
You you get in and you try to kick and you try to do kind of minimal stuff, but I I I've I've had really good success with even with injured uh doing pretty well on a swim meet.

00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.519
So I was just telling Kelly that before we turn the mics on.

00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:23.440
It's it's really true.

00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:29.440
Rest as you're older, that rest line makes a huge um impact on your performance, you know.

00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:31.119
So you can't not rest.

00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.359
I mean, you can't not work out, you gotta work out.

00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:35.440
I I I gotta ask about your family.

00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:40.319
How how do they support you or not in your athletics endeavor?

00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:44.480
How do you fit that in with um being, you know, having a family?

00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:45.039
Yeah.

00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:55.200
Well, they're all adults, uh, so they're out of the house now, so it's okay now, but they they all sort of seemed my my daughter told me once that they were uh all our vacations were always around races.

00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:56.880
And I'm like, you got a vacation.

00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:57.759
I don't have to tell you.

00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:00.480
We went to we went to San Diego one one year.

00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:11.680
I found that uh uh my wife did an open uh bike race on Friday, an open I did an open race on Saturday, and then we were biking all week along the coast in San Diego and the Tour de France was on.

00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:21.200
We take them to you know Lego land and all that in the afternoon, and you know, and and then the next weekend I found a triathlon to do, and then we left it was like an eight-day thing, and it was kind of cool.

00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:25.519
Uh they they just think it's all about races, and I I guess I'll I'll just have to live with that.

00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:28.240
Um, but yeah, it it's it's hard to fit things in.

00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.799
And I I I probably could have been a better parent.

00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:43.759
My wife, uh, she actually she's a big bicep, she was like national champion bike triathlon or uh uh time trial champion, and she was like the Arizona's fastest female, like six years in a row.

00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:45.200
So she was pretty fast.

00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:49.440
She's done uh a lot of the longer races, and so we we try to one-up each other, so that's good.

00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:51.599
So, like we just she does something painful.

00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:58.000
She did uh a couple years ago, did the uh Paris Rest Paris race is like 758 miles in three days.

00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:02.400
And uh so we we I do the English channel, she does that, and then I go do the Catalina channel.

00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.759
She's doing uh the unbound race that's in Kansas here.

00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.640
It's a 200-mile gravel race, it's uh coming up in a month or so.

00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:10.720
So we you know, I see she might win.

00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.079
I I don't think I'm gonna do any more painful things, so she might have might have won up to me.

00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.200
We'll see how it goes.

00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:18.000
Do you go and support her when she's racing?

00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.319
Or like uh the uh Paris Press Paris, that's a that's actually not a race.

00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:24.319
Yeah, it's not exactly a race, right?

00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:29.440
Yeah, I mean I I I went over there and followed her around and kind of got yelled at by the Parisians.

00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:31.920
They don't they don't they don't like they don't like Americans very much.

00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:34.319
I didn't get that I didn't get that feeling.

00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:40.799
But anyway, they so I try to find pools along the way while she was out riding and I'd get yelled at by the lady because I did she didn't speak anyway.

00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:42.960
It was it was kind of traumatic for me, but I I got over it.

00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:48.400
No, yeah, I I'm I'm taking the weekend off for her race coming up and we'll I'll go see if I can help her out a little bit.

00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.599
But she and I I read in uh the Your English channel crossing that she was there supporting you.

00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:54.720
Um Right.

00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:55.359
Right.

00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.759
Her my daughter, I brought my daughter and her husband out and they were out there helping too.

00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:00.640
So nice.

00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:01.200
It's nice.

00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:06.000
So are you do your kids do sports or are they just like totally burned out from following you and your wife around?

00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:09.440
Um I had a couple, uh they all swam to some degree.

00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:11.839
Uh a couple of them swam where I swam in college.

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:13.759
I had two daughters that swam at BYU.

00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.480
So yeah.

00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:19.119
One of them actually swam for the same coach that I had for at there, but he had retired.

00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:24.799
So but yeah, they all they all swam to a degree, not as crazy as me, but anyway.

00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:26.160
I love it.

00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:34.799
So obviously your sense of humor is one of your, I think I would observe it as one of your gifts that helps you get through tough things.

00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:48.799
What else can you tell us about your mindset when you're going into and let's let's not because again, mortals are, you know, us mere mortals are not going to probably do the English Channel or Catalina or any of swim around Manhattan.

00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:58.160
But when you're in a a pretty high pressure situation, so you're you're heading off, you know, next week to swim at the USMS, you know, national championships.

00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:00.799
We're, you know, almost 2,000 people are in this meet.

00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:03.680
A lot of fast people from all over the country come.

00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:07.920
It's it's probably the most high pressure meet for a master.

00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:14.319
If if you're if you have uh performance anxiety as a master swimmer, this is not the meet to show up at.

00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:22.000
And so what is your mindset when you're going into something where you know you're gonna get a little challenged?

00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:27.440
Um, I I wish I had my mindset now as I when I had a kid.

00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:31.519
When I was a kid, I was kind of afraid of pain and I was afraid of other competitors.

00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:34.319
And I'm just I don't have that same fear anymore.

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:45.599
I just I you know it I don't know if it's life or or emergency work, but it's like when somebody shows up with their like dying baby and you're like, that that's that's terror right there.

00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:50.799
And I I've I've lived through a lot of things, seen a lot of bad things in the ER that it's like that's pressure.

00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:58.559
What I got what me sporting a speedo at 54 years old and trying to do a time is is not really pressuring me anymore.

00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:04.079
I mean, I I've gone through so many things in my life that it's just it's it's I don't I it doesn't it doesn't phase me.

00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:08.400
I mean I get nervous, you know, but it's not it's not nearly as bad as when I was younger.

00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:13.119
I was just I was kind of like it's you it's hard to hard to compete when you're younger.

00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.640
It's like, yeah, there's that guy's pretty fast.

00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.519
I know that guy's pretty fast, or you know, this is gonna really hurt.

00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:23.839
The problem with distance people is like you have to just keep, you know, you don't have any talents, you have to keep going longer and longer.

00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.680
So that that gets more and more painful.

00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:27.200
So that's that's where I've gone.

00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:33.200
I mean, I if I had any talent, I'd be stopping at the 50, but I I I had to keep going longer so that I could uh you know do it.

00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:40.079
So but it that that it's kind of hard to get over that pain that you know, that mental pain that you're gonna you're gonna hurt hurt pretty bad.

00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:43.440
So but I think I've gotten tougher over the years, that's for sure.

00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:45.519
So with with everything that's gone on, I think.

00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.799
So do you pay much attention to your competitors?

00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.759
I mean, are you like, uh, do you pay any attention to your competitors?

00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:57.519
Are you aware that the guy next to you is, you know, he's he's gonna give you a run for your money?

00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:58.319
Absolutely.

00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:06.640
And I and I've noticed uh the ones that are my competitors this year, like, and they've done it a lot lately, they actually like put a lot slower times down.

00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:09.680
And I'm like, I understand why they do it.

00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:10.319
I just don't know.

00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:15.839
I just don't I think if you're gonna if you're gonna win a national championship, you should come to the the big boy heat with the rest of us.

00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:18.720
But I I don't know why why they why they why they did it.

00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:20.319
I'm not calling anybody out, but I am.

00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:20.559
Yeah.

00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.279
So I I hear are people actually doing that?

00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.720
They they deliberately do slower times to be in a different heat.

00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:43.680
There's uh there's there's there's a lot of people that are very good that sandbag, and I don't understand I I I get it, I guess if you're like a 50 swimmer and you want clear water, but if you're like a mile swimmer or whatever, I don't know what I don't I don't know why they're they're doing it.

00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:48.880
I I I like I like them all, I just don't understand it, and I don't I don't think I'll ever get an explanation out of them.

00:26:49.039 --> 00:27:03.920
Maybe they just don't want to the pressure of it, but it it's interesting to me because it's some of the people that are like at least a couple of them are like the I would say like the best uh uh distance swimmers in like their body of work is the best of master swimming.

00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:09.519
And I I I've noticed that they've done that more recently, and I'm I'm not sure why they're doing that, but anyway.

00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:13.519
So well, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw in a fellow distance swimmers gripe.

00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:22.880
Uh so they're mixing us men and women in the mile and the thousand, which you know separates us from who we need to be racing anyway.

00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:30.640
So maybe the person that, you know, there are some fast young, you know, young bucks women that are probably gonna be in your your heat.

00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:36.559
So they might have knocked you out from being next to the person that you need to race anyway, even if that person was entered with the right time.

00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:42.559
So um I I don't get the whole mixing of the genders for this meet for this meet.

00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:45.279
Yeah, I don't I there there's a lot of things that perplex me.

00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:46.160
I don't know why they don't.

00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.160
I think they're trying, they they let you do both, but like it's like very hard to do.

00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:55.279
I mean, I did last year, I did the 1650 and a thousand, and it's hard to do that in one day.

00:27:55.599 --> 00:28:01.279
I mean, going full on on a 1650 and then right out like two hours later doing a thousand, it's pretty hard.

00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:07.519
And I don't know why I think that they they're letting you do it, but it's like no one's dumb enough to do it.

00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.839
Not very many people are dumb enough to do it, but it'd be nice if they maybe put one at the front and one at the end.

00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:13.119
I guess they don't have the time for it.

00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:20.000
I don't know what they're trying to do, but it and then the mixing genders, I I could see why a woman wouldn't want to be they're a lot, they'll make a lot more waves and and that.

00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:20.960
So I get that too.

00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:26.720
And and you're not with your competition, but um, I've I I I complain a lot to them, but they stop.

00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.920
They don't I could tell they don't listen to me, so I stopped.

00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:37.839
Well, I know at Long Course, uh Long Course Nationals are having the 800 and the 1500 on different days, and you can enter them both.

00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:39.119
So are you sure about that?

00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:41.200
They usually do they do they they usually do it.

00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.079
You can you can only they'll you can only do one of them though when they do that.

00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.200
They are gonna let you do both.

00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:46.880
It it looks like they are.

00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:50.559
Order of events is out and they're on different days.

00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:52.559
So I'm thinking maybe they will.

00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.359
Yeah, I don't think they have the rules out because every time they're gonna.

00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:56.480
Oh, maybe the rules aren't out.

00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.119
Oh they don't make they don't let you do both of them, I think.

00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:00.480
But that's what they've done in the past.

00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:02.400
But I I'm sadly not gonna make it.

00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:06.880
I I I I I I I've had to bow up to a family uh thing, and I'm kind of sad about it.

00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:09.599
But anyway, it's uh I'm not gonna make summer national snow.

00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:14.160
Well, I just I just I think you know, I'm listening to you, you're so self-deprecating, you know.

00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:25.759
You use you you use your sense of humor and and and I love how you compare real life, you know, which you're you're really seeing that some of the ugliest parts of life in the ER and the most difficult parts.

00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:30.480
But I I'd love to know if they're you know, just real talk.

00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:32.960
You know, you are a champion.

00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:38.079
You're doing incredible things, and it's it's not just good luck and it, you know, it's not the MMs.

00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:46.000
You know, what other routines or or you know, what things that you say to yourself, you know, what we really want to get your secrets.

00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:47.359
Come on.

00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.160
Um I jeez, I wish I could tell you anyway.

00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.599
I don't I really don't mind the sec secret telling.

00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:56.640
I just don't know what they are.

00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:57.519
I really don't.

00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:01.119
I I I for me I just I just I just Show up every day.

00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:08.160
I don't and I mean I I have a large bloated panace here, and I I maybe that's making me more buoyant.

00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:09.839
I don't know.

00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:10.720
I just don't know.

00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:12.799
Consistency.

00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:13.359
I like that.

00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:14.079
I'll take that.

00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:16.079
I like consistency and showing up.

00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:17.680
I think that is definitely a routine.

00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:25.519
So, but you like what do you say to yourself in the middle of this painful you're gonna swim 1615 next week?

00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:35.440
So and it's gonna start to hurt at some point where you're gonna be in the 40s and you know, you're gonna want you know, you got 20 more slips and you're in pain.

00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:38.000
What what are you what is your inner voice saying?

00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:43.519
Uh well it's just why do I do this to myself?

00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:53.839
It's it's you know that that uh you know I really like the thousand better than the thousand better than the mile, because a thousand you'd start dying about this eight eight hundred and you got only two hundred.

00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:58.240
But the the mile you die about eleven hundred, and you got a long ways to go still.

00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:06.079
And it's it's uh it's just trying to stay with it, try to keep your stroke together and and uh and uh don't blow up.

00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.960
I mean, I just it's just it's it's just gutting it out.

00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.079
It's it's a tough event.

00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:14.000
I mean, you wouldn't think a thousand and a sixteen fifty would be all that different, but it is.

00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:24.079
I mean, I go totally different paces for both of them, and it's it's just uh it's a it's a different I I can I can put my head around a thousand a lot better, but uh, 1650 is just a tough event.

00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:28.319
You just gotta you just gotta just know know the pain's coming and be ready for it.

00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:37.200
And hopefully you've you know prepared yourself and you know the person that's the person that's uh sandbagged next to you that's gonna like now come by you.

00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:48.240
There's nothing worse than getting uh at a long distance event where somebody you got you went out too hard and this guy just comes right by you and you're just you're crying like a little baby, but you just gotta you just gotta stay with it.

00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:49.279
That's all I I don't know.

00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.799
You just gotta stay with it and just try to stay stay with your your stroke and everything.

00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:55.839
Is there anybody you're you're trying to impress when you get out of the pool?

00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:05.039
Is it your wife or your co-workers or your I mean, is there anybody you're thinking about like I gotta do decent on this because otherwise I'm gonna I'm gonna be, you know, have to hang my hit.

00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.559
I I mean I do it, I mostly do it, do it for myself.

00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:15.920
It's always it's always every year, it's like I I go nowhere near what I can do in a in a race in workout.

00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:19.119
Like some people, I don't know, they they tell you about this high intensity training.

00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:20.640
I've never been able to do it.

00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:22.640
I have never been able to come close to it.

00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:28.480
If I did a 500 like hard in in workout, I might be able to go like a 530, 525.

00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:36.640
But I I one of probably very few 54 plus year olds in the world that can go under five minutes and a five uh 500.

00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:41.279
And I don't know how where it comes from, I don't know what what it is, but it's like so.

00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:46.960
Every time I go into a meet, I'm like, is this the time I'm gonna blow up and suck and like do what I think I can do?

00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.240
Like I I never think I can do what I can do, but I end up doing.

00:32:50.400 --> 00:33:04.559
Like I just I I always I'm amazed by because I like anytime I work out, I just don't even come close to anything that's so I I just expect that I'm gonna go that fast, but I I have never done anything in workout to say that you should be able to do that time.

00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:10.240
So it's it's always been it's always amazing to me, and it always there's a little bit of fear in me every time I go to a meeting.

00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:16.480
It's like this could be the time that I just like totally make a fool on myself because it's like I entered this time and I go like a minute slower.

00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:19.200
So that's so funny.

00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:21.759
So you so you're racing for yourself.

00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:30.559
So just in a in kind of a nutshell, how do how do you taper or recommend tapering for uh uh a mile?

00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:40.640
Because we do, even if people aren't swimming a mile at nationals, they swim a mile maybe in open water or they're training, you know, they're doing a mile time trial to prep for their triathlon.

00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.319
If it, you know, you're you're a week and a half out now.

00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:47.119
What are you gonna do between now and nationals?

00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:52.000
Um, I don't I don't do a lot different because it's a mile.

00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:54.799
I I've been doing the same taper for like 20 years.

00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:01.599
Uh Chris Houchins, I went to the high altitude camp in uh in Color Springs one year, and she had a printed out.

00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:03.440
She was she coached for Indianapolis.

00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:07.680
She had a printed out taper, and I just I I've used that like multiple times a year.

00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:10.960
It's and it's not necessarily for a mile, but for some reason it still works.

00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:18.559
Like it, I don't I do a lot, I do some broken 200s, uh, you know, 10 seconds rest, and I don't do anything long really.

00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:25.920
And it it seems to, I it gets me the but I think during the year I do a lot of just more pay like kind of distance ish work.

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:34.559
And so I think I you just don't get out of shape, but it it helps me just get the speed, you know, the broken 200s and those kind of things to get the speed for for everything.

00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:41.760
So I don't do anything special for for the mile, but it it does uh it seems to translate it and you don't you don't lose a lot of shape.

00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:47.039
Just you wouldn't you wouldn't think you you would you would it would work for that, but it seems to have been working for me.

00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:48.400
What's a broken 200?

00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:53.920
Just so so you go like uh like uh 450s and you take like 10 seconds rest.

00:34:54.159 --> 00:35:03.360
So you're kind of you're high intensity, but you're you're only so you you're taking only 10 seconds rest in between, then you just add your time, and that would be your time for a 200.

00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:13.599
Um I'll put like I'll put like flippers on just to get it so pretend like I'm faster than I really am, and and it helps, you know, kind of a predictor of what you could maybe do a 200 in.

00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.719
So cool, cool.

00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.320
Um, has there uh ever been a any huge obstacles in your life?

00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:26.960
Um the last two years have been sort of chaos for my family.

00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:28.880
We were we've had so many, you know.

00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:41.679
I uh my my family had to move, uh my s daughter had to move in with us with her kids, and and my wife had a she did a 24-hour bike race, and you know, it was head injury, clavicle fracture, scapula fracture.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:52.000
My other daughter was getting abused by her husband, and then COVID hit, and you know, I got a we lost a lot of shifts, so I was not working a lot, and ended up losing my job.

00:35:52.079 --> 00:36:00.480
That's kind of how I ended up moving here, and it's just uh it it I there was I think there were two obstacles that I had going through that last few years.

00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:10.159
I think maybe everybody went through a lot with COVID and everything, but the the the two obstacles, I think one of them is like the people I worked with, I like worked with them for 24 years.

00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:12.320
They're my friends, they were my friends at least.

00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:19.519
They they kind of turned on me, and it's like it's hard to get that sort of that justifiable anger out of your out of your out of your head.

00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:27.599
And you can go at a religious sort of standpoint and say, Oh, you know, you know, Jesus told us to forgive 70 times seven, so we should do that.

00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:29.760
But you know, you just want to hold on to it.

00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:36.320
And I those people that you feel like betrayed you, they they don't they haven't given you a second thought.

00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:43.599
But the way what it's useful for is to get that out of your head, you have to forgive them because to move on.

00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:45.679
You you I've never had to do this.

00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:55.119
It was very hard because it's like they don't think about me at all, and it and I just like was thinking about them every day and wishing cancer on them or something bad, you know, and then just like I gotta get this out of my head.

00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:00.960
Like I just got and so the obstacle by itself is not a it's something you overcome, it's just like a process.

00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:03.440
But that was one of the obstacles I got with that.

00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:10.320
And then the other obstacle I think with that was this feeling of inadequacy, you know, like I'm not good enough, people don't want me anymore.

00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:19.840
And the spiritual side of me said, Okay, um, you know, got you're you're son of God, God loves you, and you know, you just turn it over to God.

00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:27.119
My intellectual side said, you know, you need to get away from people that don't believe in you and hate hate you or whatever they are.

00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:33.840
Uh, you got to be patient with yourself, you got to be, you know, you you gotta be persistent, but you try to be better, but be patient with yourself.

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:39.920
And then kind of my like primitive self, I think swimming helps that because it's like I want to get my mojo back.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:42.400
And and I just I want to go, you know.

00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:47.119
So instead of like going and punching somebody, I just like I think I trained a lot harder last year.

00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:50.320
And I I think 2021 was probably my my best year.

00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:55.280
I don't think I don't think I'm not sure anybody's ever done a pool and a long distance all-star in one year.

00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.480
I think I had three number one world rankings next last year and 14 top 10.

00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:08.159
I had 14 pool and all uh open water uh uh national championships.

00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:18.000
The then the at nationals last year, I I won overall for the mile, and then I at the San Antonio open water, I won overall for both the mile and three mile.

00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:23.039
I just I I just it helps me, it helped me get out of that, uh the sort of the the primitive side.

00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:34.239
So there was a spiritual side and intellectual side, and I don't think I intentionally went through all that, but it's uh looking back on it, I think that's kind of helped me what what I went through to get through those those problems.

00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:35.760
I love that.

00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.280
Yeah, and that that's intellectual and primitive, yeah.

00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:40.159
Almost physical.

00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:51.039
Definitely you you put a lot of uh that power into your swimming, which is you know what uh we just interviewed Amanda Coker last our last episode on um her riding.

00:38:51.119 --> 00:39:00.000
She rode 237 miles a day for a year, Kurt, and um you know broke the world record men's and women, and she was, you know.

00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:02.800
This was so lady bits, by the way.

00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:04.000
Yeah, yeah.

00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:04.880
No kidding.

00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:05.760
No kidding.

00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:07.840
But I gotta hear that from my wife all the time.

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:08.719
Sorry, carry on.

00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:11.280
No, that's you're we hear you.

00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:13.599
Um Maria rides great recumbent bikes with.

00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:16.559
I was gonna say Amanda did some of it on a recumbent.

00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:18.079
Your wife can also go recumbent.

00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:18.960
That's great, yeah.

00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:21.039
Cruise bikes are great recumbents.

00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:29.440
But um, no, I I mean, but anyway, we find that champions like you and Amanda have that driving something deeper.

00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:35.199
Amanda was bullied, she was coming back from being overweight, she had a lot driving her like you did.

00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:46.320
So I love that as a takeaway that sometimes when you're getting dished up just a crap sandwich, you're gonna eat it and produce something really nice that's powerful.00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:49.360


When I was angry, I did some of my best events ever.00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:53.679


I mean, like truly angry when somebody had truly offended me in a big way.00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:55.760


I was I was an amazing athlete.00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:02.639


Or I was upset because you know, my my sister got cancer, and it's just like, yeah, I love the division between spiritual, intellectual, and primitive.00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:04.000


I think that's so on point.00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:06.480


I've never heard anybody elucidate it that way.00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:07.519


It's really good.00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:10.079


Okay, now uh it's the fun stuff.00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:11.519


We got to get you to a map.00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:13.599


So you can get you out of here.00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:16.480


But are you this is actually called the sprinter round?00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:22.400


And I know you are a distance person, but I saw that you have gone like 24 in the 50 free.00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:23.679


Come on, you can sprint.00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:24.639


Um, and that's now.00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:29.599


So I don't even know what you went as a as a kid, but I know as a 54-year-old, you're going in the 24s.00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:30.159


So that is it.00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:37.280


One time in college, one time in college, they put me in the 50 and I beat all the I bit all the 50 swimmers and they were all pushed off on me the rest of the day.00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:39.599


It was a it was a dual meeting.00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:40.960


I put them in, they they were all sad.00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:42.079


They thought they were gonna take me.00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:42.880


But anyway.00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:50.480


Well, there is definitely something that you gotta have some type of speed to be able to hold on for you know that kind of pace.00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:52.719


But all right, so this is the sprinter round.00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:54.000


Are you ready?00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:55.599


I was born ready.00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:56.159


Okay.00:40:58.800 --> 00:40:59.840


Cat or dog?00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:01.360


Dog.00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:03.119


Red or blue?00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:04.320


Red.00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:07.199


Milk chocolate or dark chocolate.00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:10.159


It's an abomination.00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:11.599


Dark chocolate is an abomination.00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:12.400


Milk chocolate.00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:13.199


I totally agree with that.00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:14.000


No, of course.00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:15.440


Mountains or beach?00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:16.400


Beach.00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:18.000


Football or baseball?00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:19.039


Baseball.00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:21.199


iPhone or Android?00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:23.599


Android, that's just because I'm poor.00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:25.119


I don't have anything against the iPhone.00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:25.840


I'm just poor.00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:27.199


We're Android too.00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:30.079


Maria and I you're the only other person on the planet.00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:32.320


Um coffee or tea?00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.400


I don't drink any of that stuff.00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.199


Wow, that's interesting.00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:38.480


No caffeine?00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:40.719


Well, I'm uh LDS.00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:41.280


You've heard that?00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:42.400


Yeah, we don't drink coffee too.00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:43.280


Oh, gotcha.00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:43.760


Okay, okay.00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.159


No alcohol, no, no caffeine of any kind.00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:46.719


Okay.00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:47.280


Morning person.00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:48.719


MMs are okay.00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:49.599


Yeah, they're okay.00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:50.559


That's that's my vice.00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:51.840


I got caffeine in that.00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:52.480


There's some caffeine.00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:54.719


I'm a hypocrite.00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:57.199


Morning person or night owl?00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:58.559


Um, neither, man.00:41:58.639 --> 00:41:59.280


I'm right in the middle.00:41:59.440 --> 00:41:59.920


10 a.m.00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:00.639


to 2 p.m.00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:03.360


If I could work that shift, I'd do that all day, every day.00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:05.920


Don't have to get up too early, don't have to stay up late.00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:07.360


Right in the middle.00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:10.639


And it's only four hours, so I'm gonna go straight through.00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:11.840


I wouldn't take lunch or anything.00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:12.639


Just 10 a.m.00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:12.960


to two.00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:15.039


I was no lunch.00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:15.760


I love it.00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:17.119


All right, Marie's got some for you.00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:18.800


Favorite favorite color.00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:23.360


Yeah, I think I I used to think I was a red guy, but I now I'm I think I'm an orange guy.00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:27.440


I I don't I I I I wanted to be red, and I'm like, no, I think I'm orange.00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:29.920


Took me a long time to get there.00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:31.440


Yeah, my husband is orange.00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:33.440


Yeah, that's a rare favorite color, but I like it.00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:35.199


Favorite pizza topping.00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:36.480


Pepperoni.00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:38.239


Favorite vegetable.00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:40.079


I don't think it exists.00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:41.679


Potatoes.00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:42.559


They're vegetables.00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:43.199


That count.00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:44.719


Okay, potatoes, then I would do that.00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:49.280


And butter.00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:49.840


Butter.00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:50.239


Yeah.00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.320


Favorite swim complex in the U.S.00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:54.719


Um, I've always liked uh Texas.00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:56.960


I think that was that's uh one of my favorites.00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:01.280


Which is there should I know what what you mean when you say Oh, University of Texas, yeah.00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:06.559


My my my brother swam there and I went there and swam there one summer and it was it was a good it was fond memories.00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:08.960


What kind what kind of music do you like?00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:12.800


I like my favorite is like Joe Jackson.00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:13.840


You ever heard of Joe Jackson?00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:14.719


Yeah, I'll show you.00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:17.119


Yeah, yeah.00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:18.960


Shoe size.00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:21.199


Yeah, my shoe size, 12.00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:21.760


Okay.00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:23.599


Uh do you have siblings?00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:24.400


Yeah.00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:25.599


Six of them.00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:26.400


Six, yeah.00:43:26.559 --> 00:43:28.559


A favorite Star Wars character.00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:34.800


Um, I yeah, I um I might disappoint you with this, but I I I can't stand a whole Star Wars Enterprise.00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:35.199


Okay.00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:37.519


I just wear I I don't know, man.00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:38.239


I don't I don't get it.00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:38.960


I don't understand it.00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:45.199


When I would the first one came out when I was like 10 years old, and I was like, I was like, it's okay, why are we going to this 10 times?00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:45.840


I don't understand.00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:48.400


Can you cook?00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:53.039


I mean, I I make a mean waffle and a mean raspberry crepes.00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:57.280


That's I I do some breakfast items that are pretty good, and I would challenge anybody.00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:57.920


Okay.00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:01.920


What word comes to mind when you first dive in the water?00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:08.960


Um I mean, I I I don't know if it's a word, it's just a relaxation.00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:18.880


I like that's just that's my that's my zen there when I get I jump in that just uh just glide, and you're just like I don't know if I I get a word in my head that it just that it just feels you know peaceful and relaxing.00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:20.639


Sort of maybe glide.00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:21.119


I like that.00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:23.039


That's I like Zen.00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:23.679


That's great.00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:25.360


Zen works works too.00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:27.280


Oh Kurt, this has been so awesome.00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:27.760


So fun.00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:28.079


So fun.00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:29.519


Yeah, so so fun.00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:37.119


Really appreciate your time and uh just wish you all the best in everything you're doing in the pool, out of the pool with your family.00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:39.119


And um just thank you, thank you.00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:40.480


Win win win.00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.000


Thanks, thanks for having me.00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:43.280


Yeah, all right, take care.00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:44.559


All right, bye.00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:49.840


Thanks so much for listening to this champions mojo Encore episode.00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:56.000


If it inspired you, please follow the show, share it with a friend, and consider leaving a quick review.00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:57.360


It truly helps.00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:02.480


And don't forget, my new book, False Cure, is available at Amazon and Barnes Noble.00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:11.440


I'll be back in January 2026 with all new episodes to help you live well, swim well, and keep your mojo going.